Long pipes

One of the fellas I ran into at the dealer has a little problem with his chain hitting the aftermarket DS long pipes. When a pal of mine was driving behind me, he noticed my left pipe is a little higher than the right and I don't have that chain rubbing problem. So who out there has even pipes with the rubbing problem and who has the lowered right pipe? I saw a rear view pic and it looked like the right pipe was lower.

I believe the problem you are describing is caused by the after market mid pipe without the cats from South Bay Norton. The bend in the mid pipe may be off a little increasing or decreasing the chain clearance to the right silencer!

Britfan60 said:

One of the fellas I ran into at the dealer has a little problem with his chain hitting the aftermarket DS long pipes. When a pal of mine was driving behind me, he noticed my left pipe is a little higher than the right and I don't have that chain rubbing problem. So who out there has even pipes with the rubbing problem and who has the lowered right pipe? I saw a rear view pic and it looked like the right pipe was lower.

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Curtis,

I have a chain rubbing problem on my SBN Dominator pipe also. For sure the pipe crosses the chain path with very little clearance. I use stainless steel radiator clamps to protect the pipe from contact with the chain. It's not pretty, but it works. I have already replaced one of the clamps in just a few hundred miles. I believe the X-pipe is not designed properly, holding the silencer too high and too close to the chain. I never thought to check if one pipe was higher than the other from behind. I'll check it tomorrow to see if this is the case.

will b interested to see if SBNT correct this with no hassle and no charge. do keep us informed.

I too have the chain clearance issue with the SBT exhaust and have the stock catalytic X-pipe. The chain has come in contact with the after-market exhaust, but only enough to make a few small scratches in approx. 2,000 miles. I do keep the chain well adjusted. Interestingly, I recently reinstalled the stock exhaust and have the same issue. When I take the bike in for the next service, I'll have Munroe Motors take a look. I've already mentioned it to them and they've noticed the same thing on their red SF that's for sale currently.

SBT is aware of the issue, but in talking to Carlos, he said that I was the only one that had the problem (I told him others on this forum had noted same). He is/was thinking it may be that the Café Racer exhaust system is different than the SEs, which is mostly what they've delivered. He promised to investigate further when they receive their next Café Racer. I doubt the exhaust systems are different, but I do believe the fix is not such a big deal. System needs to be taken apart and shifted to the right slightly, perhaps requiring a mod (spacer, bend, etc.) to the X-pipe mount.

Also interesting is that in riding with the stock mufflers (while SBT was repairing the weld on their Dominator pipe), I was riding aggressively and grounded pretty hard around a left turn. In assessing damage, I see that I've scraped the side stand pretty good. But, later on realized that I also grounded the outside of the left stock exhaust, near the welded bend in the pipe. I had observed how large the stock mufflers are but hadn't figured that would make a difference in ground clearance. Had no such issue with the SBT exhaust. SBT exhaust is going back on as soon as I can get access to the remap 077 and bring the bike in for service.

Fred. It its your bike I was referring to. Didn't want to throw your name out there. My chain doesn't rub at all. I have a half inch clearance. Left pipe is lower. Barely noticeable but it is.

I'm ordering the SBT pipes. For you others that got them, did you get the high torque or high horsepower "sport" pipes? Their site says the torque pipes are a little bit quieter than the sport pipes.

I got the DT (torque pipes) set. Ordered the silencers and decatt X pipe. Installation was easy and no major problems Sound is greatly improved over the originals

I would suggest to South Bay that they add an additional filler weld bead on the seam on the silencers (up pipe to cone) If you decatt the bike, the system is supported by (2 points) the header at the exhaust port and the hangers on the silencer. In stock catted version the exhaust system is supported at three points (exhaust port, silencer bracket, and the cat pipe also has a bracket bolted tot he frame) you loose that hanger on the cat pipe when you use South Bay's X pipe.

I do not think there is a problem with the decatted 2 point support system, but the weld mentioned above is not (in my opinion) strong enough to handle the vibration it will see without the X pipe support that exists on the stock cat pipe.

G81 Can Cycle said:

I got the DT (torque pipes) set. Ordered the silencers and decatt X pipe. Installation was easy and no major problems Sound is greatly improved over the originals

I would suggest to South Bay that they add an additional filler weld bead on the seam on the silencers (up pipe to cone) If you decatt the bike, the system is supported by (2 points) the header at the exhaust port and the hangers on the silencer. In stock catted version the exhaust system is supported at three points (exhaust port, silencer bracket, and the cat pipe also has a bracket bolted tot he frame) you loose that hanger on the cat pipe when you use South Bay's X pipe.

I do not think there is a problem with the decatted 2 point support system, but the weld mentioned above is not (in my opinion) strong enough to handle the vibration it will see without the X pipe support that exists on the stock cat pipe.

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Thanks for the info! So should the X Pipe always be purchased along with the silencer pipes, or would just getting the silencer pipes make a good HP improvement? Also, did you ever get the re-map?

G81 Can Cycle said:

I got the DT (torque pipes) set. Ordered the silencers and decatt X pipe. Installation was easy and no major problems Sound is greatly improved over the originals

I would suggest to South Bay that they add an additional filler weld bead on the seam on the silencers (up pipe to cone) If you decatt the bike, the system is supported by (2 points) the header at the exhaust port and the hangers on the silencer. In stock catted version the exhaust system is supported at three points (exhaust port, silencer bracket, and the cat pipe also has a bracket bolted tot he frame) you loose that hanger on the cat pipe when you use South Bay's X pipe.

I do not think there is a problem with the decatted 2 point support system, but the weld mentioned above is not (in my opinion) strong enough to handle the vibration it will see without the X pipe support that exists on the stock cat pipe.

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There is no good reason to not support the decatted X-pipe the same way as the factory pipe. Except that less welding = cheaper production cost.

You are right about the weld.
The weld on my right side silencer bracket failed last April. It was clear that the weld did not have enough penitration into the silencer body to provide adequate strength. My dealer called Southbay and they agreed to take the silencer back and fix it. I wanted a new one, but southbay said at the time that they had no spares, and it would be faster to have the repair made. I was fearing a Frankenstein repair, but SouthBay repaired the silencer, repolished it, and the thing looked new when it arrived back. The weld was obviously visually better, and I have had no problems since.

As designed by South Bay, there is a good reason for not having a bracket on the decat X pipe. On factory silencers the mounting bracket is a "box" channel that allows the mounting point to vary. The SB silencers have a fixed (not sliding adjustable mount point like factory units) mounting point or bracket

Having the stock cat pipe bracket hold a fixed place on the frame limits makes it tough to then get a perfect alignment of the silencer bracket (hence the adjustable channels on the stock unit). A custom hand build frame leaves room for tolerances from unit to unit. Without the "box" channel on the factory silencers, it would be a challenge to mount the silencers with the cat pipe fixed in position by a bracket.

The decat "X" pipe not having a bracket, allows you to slip the X pipe on the header pipes, and slip into the silencers. Before tightening the clamps, you fix the brackets on the silencers to the frame. Then tighten the clamp bolts. The adjustment is basically the amount of engagement of the X pipe to the silencers and header pipes

Of course this is only my opinion and I might be wrong, and I hope this explanation made sense

I do think there needs to be additional welding support on the silencer, and Brit Twit is not the only 961 owner on the board who has had a weld failure on SB silencers.

As to decatting or not? I am not sure how much the cat pipe restricts flow. Maybe someone with more knowledge on the subject than myself could comment. When I purchased my SB system, I decatted and purchased the X pipe.

Just an update on this: I just spoke to South Bay and they answered a few questions for me:

They recommended for now only getting the slip on rear pipes because they still do not have software to properly get the most out of the decatted X-Pipes. They said once they have the remap software then getting the X-Pipe should be advantageous (and also I'm not even sure it's legal in Oregon). He said just getting the slip-on rear pipes will add about 10 HP plus more torque. I ordered the high-torque version which is the only set they currently offer. They said they are tweaking the sports and will not be selling them for a little while.

So I'm happy with that for now: High Torque pipes are shipping to me shortly, and I'm excited for the extra power and sweeter sound!

GoingCommando said:

Just an update on this: I just spoke to South Bay and they answered a few questions for me:

They recommended for now only getting the slip on rear pipes because they still do not have software to properly get the most out of the decatted X-Pipes. They said once they have the remap software then getting the X-Pipe should be advantageous (and also I'm not even sure it's legal in Oregon). He said just getting the slip-on rear pipes will add about 10 HP plus more torque. I ordered the high-torque version which is the only set they currently offer. They said they are tweaking the sports and will not be selling them for a little while.

So I'm happy with that for now: High Torque pipes are shipping to me shortly, and I'm excited for the extra power and sweeter sound!

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That's strange because I bought the decatted X-pipe with the Dominator Sport silencers from SouthBay in January last year. I've had them on my bike for a year. I have had the remap (077) done on the bike to correct a flat spot around 3500-4200 RPM. It worked, the flat spot is gone and the bike pulls very strongly now. However, cold starting is still somewhat of a problem. The Sports are loud, I was thinking of buying the Torque silencers and putting the Sports on eBay. When I called SouthBay last summer they told me that the Torques were not in stock yet.
Very strange.

BritTwit said:

That's strange because I bought the decatted X-pipe with the Dominator Sport silencers from SouthBay in January last year. I've had them on my bike for a year. I have had the remap (077) done on the bike to correct a flat spot around 3500-4200 RPM. It worked, the flat spot is gone and the bike pulls very strongly now. However, cold starting is still somewhat of a problem. The Sports are loud, I was thinking of buying the Torque silencers and putting the Sports on eBay. When I called SouthBay last summer they told me that the Torques were not in stock yet.
Very strange.

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How did you get the 077 Re-Map? South Bay says they don't have the software and that Norton hasn't authorized it for U.S. dealers. They didn't say the X-Pipes are bad or anything; just that I wouldn't get the right performance out of them without the remap. If you know of a dealer with the remap software please ask them to forward it along to Hinshaw's in Washington State (my Norton dealer) who also says they have received no remap software yet.

Also they said there was nothing wrong at all with the Sport pipes. Only they were too similar to the torque pipes and they want to make an even higher HP and noisier version. Until then they said they'll only be selling the torque pipes. My understanding is that the Sport pipes give 12 more HP, and the torque pipes give 10 more HP, but more torque than the Sport pipes. When I ordered over the weekend the site said they had 10 pairs in stock, and they said they'll be shipping my order tomorrow.

Oh, and one more thing: South Bay said they have resolved the welding issue and said they've sold over 200 Norton pipes (worldwide) and only had the one weld failure. They have apparently strengthened the weld so he said there should be no such issues in the future.

For those who haven't seen, the pipes can be purchased on the South Bay site. I assume that's a relatively new feature as my order was Order #3:
http://www.southbaynorton.com/index.php ... ducts_id=8

GoingCommando said:

Oh, and one more thing: South Bay said they have resolved the welding issue and said they've sold over 200 Norton pipes (worldwide) and only had the one weld failure. They have apparently strengthened the weld so he said there should be no such issues in the future.

For those who haven't seen, the pipes can be purchased on the South Bay site. I assume that's a relatively new feature as my order was Order #3:
http://www.southbaynorton.com/index.php ... ducts_id=8

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When My 961 can in to the dealer in December 2013, I asked the dealer to contact SouthBay about their aftermarket exhaust I had heard about. I believe I got the first or second set of X-pipes and Dominator silencers sold for the 961. It wasn't until I heard the 961 running with the Dominators that I thought they might be a bit too loud. I do think you will be better off, all things considered, with the Torque silencers. The Dominators on the 961 seem louder than the the Termi's on my Ducati 999. That's loud!

The remap that was done utilized the factory Norton 077 map, designed for the long freeflowing (loud) aftermarket silencers that the factory sell in the UK, but not in the US. The map is not the perfect match for the SouthBay exhaust, but a great improvement over the standard OEM 961 map. SouthBay is developing their own map for their exhaust systems, but I couldn't wait for them to finish, I was riding around with a efi map that was far too lean at all speeds. It was not healthy for the engine. As I indicated previously, the bike runs great now, but once the southBay map is available I will remap again.

One other thing to be aware off. On my bike, unless I keep the drive chain tight (as close to the minimum slack = 35mm) the drive chain will rub on the end of the Dominator silencer. This occurs when braking hard or over bumps when the rear suspension is in will extension. Be careful of this. I didn't realize that it was happening until the weld on my silencer came apart. While inspecting the failed weld, I noticed a shallow slot cut into the silencer tube just below the chain. I know of one other 961 owner who also has the SouthBay X-pipe and Dominator exhaust, and he also indicated that his chain is very close to the silencer too. It's just something to keep your eye on.

BritTwit said:

When My 961 can in to the dealer in December 2013, I asked the dealer to contact SouthBay about their aftermarket exhaust I had heard about. I believe I got the first or second set of X-pipes and Dominator silencers sold for the 961. It wasn't until I heard the 961 running with the Dominators that I thought they might be a bit too loud. I do think you will be better off, all things considered, with the Torque silencers. The Dominators on the 961 seem louder than the the Termi's on my Ducati 999. That's loud!

The remap that was done utilized the factory Norton 077 map, designed for the long freeflowing (loud) aftermarket silencers that the factory sell in the UK, but not in the US. The map is not the perfect match for the SouthBay exhaust, but a great improvement over the standard OEM 961 map. SouthBay is developing their own map for their exhaust systems, but I couldn't wait for them to finish, I was riding around with a efi map that was far too lean at all speeds. It was not healthy for the engine. As I indicated previously, the bike runs great now, but once the southBay map is available I will remap again.

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What's the name of your dealer that has the 077 map for long open pipes? My dealer has nothing and would love to get that software. South Bay told me the factory mapping works well if you just switch out the silencers, but the remap becomes more necessary when going with the decatted X-Pipe. That's why for now I'm just swapping the silencers out. More horsepower and noise without needing the remap (at least that's what they told me). But if my dealer can get that 077 remap that you have then I might get the X-pipe from South Bay as well.

GoingCommando said:

BritTwit said:

When My 961 can in to the dealer in December 2013, I asked the dealer to contact SouthBay about their aftermarket exhaust I had heard about. I believe I got the first or second set of X-pipes and Dominator silencers sold for the 961. It wasn't until I heard the 961 running with the Dominators that I thought they might be a bit too loud. I do think you will be better off, all things considered, with the Torque silencers. The Dominators on the 961 seem louder than the the Termi's on my Ducati 999. That's loud!

The remap that was done utilized the factory Norton 077 map, designed for the long freeflowing (loud) aftermarket silencers that the factory sell in the UK, but not in the US. The map is not the perfect match for the SouthBay exhaust, but a great improvement over the standard OEM 961 map. SouthBay is developing their own map for their exhaust systems, but I couldn't wait for them to finish, I was riding around with a efi map that was far too lean at all speeds. It was not healthy for the engine. As I indicated previously, the bike runs great now, but once the southBay map is available I will remap again.

Click to expand...

What's the name of your dealer that has the 077 map for long open pipes? My dealer has nothing and would love to get that software. South Bay told me the factory mapping works well if you just switch out the silencers, but the remap becomes more necessary when going with the decatted X-Pipe. That's why for now I'm just swapping the silencers out. More horsepower and noise without needing the remap (at least that's what they told me). But if my dealer can get that 077 remap that you have then I might get the X-pipe from South Bay as well.

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Have your dealer contact Gold Coast Motorsports, New Hyde Park, NY (516) 352-0150.
My dealer got the maps from the US Distributor - Dan Van Epps. Your dealer should be able to get them as well.

I swapped out the stock silencers for the South Bay Torque pipes a few days ago. Wow! Before I only heard the engine and now there's actually some exhaust noise behind me. They sound great; louder but not too loud. I feel the extra 10 HP and torque (plus they weigh 6 pounds less than the stock pipes), and I think I slightly prefer the look of them too. They are slightly thinner and angled slightly more upward. They are also just a couple inches shorter than stock.

I did an audio/video recording of the stock pipes the day before I switched them out and I'll do the same with the new pipes in a day or two and then post the video so you can all hear the difference.

I heard my bike run during set up for a short while at the dealer. Oh....hell no. Ordered the DS pipes right then and there. They are so throaty. Not obnoxiously loud, but deep form the gut. I love the sound.