Lock Washers:Exhaust Nutz

Brooking 850 · May 30, 2015

Heres one I made out of a Yamaha spanner , the three stubs are from the shank of an old open ender spanner, so are hardened and dont bend.
Just slip a tube over the handle of the spanner for more leverage, I use an old bent fork stanchion , fits perfect!!!

Regards Mike

Tintin · May 31, 2015

norton73 said:
I don't use them, I coat the threads with red RTV, crank the nuts down, ride, cool, tighten, ride, cool, repeat a couple times.

I tighten them hot, did that twice on the Atlas and no worries afterwards. The second time I tightened them with the engine running at 3krpm.

I have a feeling that the main problem of exh nuts coming lose even when nicely tightened is more a Commando-specific thing and primarily has something to do with the exhaust being attached to the frame by rubber mounts instead of rigid mounts to the cradle.

Tim

Biscuit · May 31, 2015

Brooking 850 said:
Heres one I made out of a Yamaha spanner , the three stubs are from the shank of an old open ender spanner, so are hardened and dont bend.
Just slip a tube over the handle of the spanner for more leverage, I use and old bent fork stanchion , fits perfect!!!

Regards Mike

That's a nice tool. Probably better than the factory one as it will pull from three sides rather from just one. All the force is going into turning the nut and none is wasted trying to twist the nut off kilter.

Brooking 850 · May 31, 2015

Hi Biscuit, yes you are right, until I made the tool I used a rough C type spanner or a brass drift to tap them tight, but as you say that puts it on a kilter and therefore always come s loose.
I always tighten a few time s when hot, lock wire and job done.
The race bike has slightly different header shapes as they exit the head and the same spanner picks up at least two of the exhaust nut tabs close to 180 degree opposite and still works.
A lot of exhaust nuts have different spacing between fins depending on material type or manufacturer type, this spanner will fit all with either three tabs engaged or two
Regards Mike

Hobot · May 31, 2015

Long before my time the main experts found out only thing that matters is getting the exht roses TIGHT enough w/o anything inside to crush down over time/heat/vibes or loose clamp force to jiggle the Alu threads to dust even if the ext rose was welded to the head let alone held stable by a stupid lock washer. I use my hammer and scythe stone cold and have not had to do it again hot. It is not how tight you get these that harms the threads but being too wishy washy timid to be a good Commando mechanic. Search up the references on this from the UK experts vendors and builders and their advice hobot now follows. Btw Milk of Magnesia is best HI Temp anti seize for this as dose not melt out but turns to semi hard plaster that holds great till the first whack off breaks it up to powdery lube so roses back off smoothly with low thread saving effort.

Bruce N · Jun 1, 2015

I've been using set screws. 2 of them, drilled and tapped 180 degrees apart. It's worked for me, but haven't seen anyone mention it here.

Hobot · Jun 1, 2015

Again mention the risk is not preventing the roses from turning its not getting them tight enough so no more crush is possible so even welded on nuts can still allow vibration to beat the alu threads to dust by fracturing microscopically from valleys outward. You can easy not tighten enough by depending on some external device but you simple Can Not Over Tighten unless too tight to heat & beat loose again. I sledge hammer mine on stone cold now one time does it but for sure run it or more often torch head area good before first strike to break the MOM free then nice smooth hand twist out. For those that doubt this so still timid baby burpers I suggest looking up the NOC-UK and Norvil etc published brutal instructions and maybe post here for us review again. Keeps comnoz in business otherwise.

Never have to force your self if big enough hammer to make the minions stay in their places.

Brooking 850 · Jun 1, 2015

Hi BruceN, a mate runs the same set up with set screws on his Commando Roadster , never has a problem, will get a pic to post next time I view his bike Maybe a pic of yours?
REgards Mike

Nater_Potater · Jun 1, 2015

hobot said:
Never have to force your self if big enough hammer to make the minions stay in their places.

Um, Steve; where did you say you were from?

namibchris · Jun 4, 2015

I want to thank one and all for their comments, at the moment I am sitting in the middle of nowhere in Mozambique, I'll make a tool and grab a crack hammer when I'm back!

Hobot · Jun 5, 2015

The whacking on tool method help shock release the threads hanging up and avoids tipping cycle over levering hard enough on long handle with breaker bar. Karl Marx was paid by Rothschilds in City of London to write up his book so another British sourced innovation to get ahead by shoving people down.

pete.v · Jun 5, 2015

The whacking on tool method helped tighten galled threads to force them to seal up causing them to fail early and give comnoz something to do.

Hobot · Jun 5, 2015

If head threads are already galled then they are already about toast from the more whimpy and mis understood factors - none of which applies to my 3 heads with exhts hammered on. Not my opinion but published advice from those with 3 decades at that point making Norton history. One can not over tighten these unless can not remove but sure can under tighten. I started out with careful long levering but single handed tends to flip bike over, so now just wham bam thank you mam. hobot thots on the lockwashers or safety wire is I would rather know they are loosening before beating galling threads. I had two come off riding to scare me till working up my manhood and understanding. If I come across the severe torque article I will post here but it made even me grimace at the force recommended so less nerve wracking on me to hammer home with shock waves relieving thread galling hang up the slower kinder method risks. Milk of Magnesia has also reduced my stress level on rose nuts and mower exht header bolts. Ever hear of bolts that just twist apart by hand but unscrew normal by air impact?

Biscuit · Jun 5, 2015

Nater_Potater said:
hobot said:

Never have to force your self if big enough hammer to make the minions stay in their places.

Click to expand...

Um, Steve; where did you say you were from?

A similar universe that is just a little different from our own. :roll:

Hobot · Jun 6, 2015

ugh i am mostly dragged kicking-screaming or knocked senseless through life events. Most recent quantum mechanics description outside the Standard Model is known a Q-hydrodynamics because it treats particles not as blurry wave packets everywhere at once in one universe but as very sharp distinct point locations along flow paths that move through multi-universes so close together we can not tell which one its in till observed somehow. Going by the Standard Model everywhere our telescopes are pointed is collapsing the cosmos so in time we will be like the room full of cats that eat each other up till nothing left but fading Schrodingers Cheshire cat grin... QHD uses simple math not complex probabilities with relativistic compensations (I once had to do with slide rule in physical chemistry course) but gives identical predictions so now on equal footing of any reality we can think about. Do note in my cosmos symbol is mirror image - which you are part of involuntarily - so evidence no freewill exists and proof that many folks or even yourself alone doing same thing over and over like in Commandos fasteners > can expect various results over time/existence.

Below implies that lock tabs or safety wire on exhaust nuts is merely a rabbit foot good luck charm, not really involved in anything but feeling like a good mechanic & lucky enough about your fate to ride afterward. I avoid funny beliefs w/o logic and expect to loose engine or die trying so feel lucky my prediction was false that time around. LOL 15+ min of no motion runing, hehehehahahahohoho off to the funny farm where its logical to close the gates after cows escaped, if going by consensus of new age school crew experts on AccesssNorton. I will fit springs to Peel Alu rose nuts as can not bang on them like good ole steel versions.

Fitting Exhaust Lockrings & Exhaust Lockring Tab WashersTech Talk Page http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk

Do not bend the exhaust lockring, tab washer tabs, over when you first fit them. Tighten the lockrings up *as much as you can* upon initial installation. After your first ride out, when you return home, run the bike for *at least* 15 Minutes WITHOUT RIDING IT. This will slightly over heat the exhaust posts and you can tighten the lockrings some more.

*Repeat* the tightening process, when you come back off a ride and *cannot tighten the lockrings any more*, this is when you bend over the locktabs.

Page last updated 27/06/07

namibchris · Jun 7, 2015

hobot said:
ugh i am mostly dragged kicking-screaming or knocked senseless through life events. Most recent quantum mechanics description outside the Standard Model is known a Q-hydrodynamics because it treats particles not as blurry wave packets everywhere at once in one universe but as very sharp distinct point locations along flow paths that move through multi-universes so close together we can not tell which one its in till observed somehow. Going by the Standard Model everywhere our telescopes are pointed is collapsing the cosmos so in time we will be like the room full of cats that eat each other up till nothing left but fading Schrodingers Cheshire cat grin... QHD uses simple math not complex probabilities with relativistic compensations (I once had to do with slide rule in physical chemistry course) but gives identical predictions so now on equal footing of any reality we can think about. Do note in my cosmos symbol is mirror image - which you are part of involuntarily - so evidence no freewill exists and proof that many folks or even yourself alone doing same thing over and over like in Commandos fasteners > can expect various results over time/existence.

Below implies that lock tabs or safety wire on exhaust nuts is merely a rabbit foot good luck charm, not really involved in anything but feeling like a good mechanic & lucky enough about your fate to ride afterward. I avoid funny beliefs w/o logic and expect to loose engine or die trying so feel lucky my prediction was false that time around. LOL 15+ min of no motion runing, hehehehahahahohoho off to the funny farm where its logical to close the gates after cows escaped, if going by consensus of new age school crew experts on AccesssNorton. I will fit springs to Peel Alu rose nuts as can not bang on them like good ole steel versions.

Fitting Exhaust Lockrings & Exhaust Lockring Tab WashersTech Talk Page http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk

Do not bend the exhaust lockring, tab washer tabs, over when you first fit them. Tighten the lockrings up *as much as you can* upon initial installation. After your first ride out, when you return home, run the bike for *at least* 15 Minutes WITHOUT RIDING IT. This will slightly over heat the exhaust posts and you can tighten the lockrings some more.

*Repeat* the tightening process, when you come back off a ride and *cannot tighten the lockrings any more*, this is when you bend over the locktabs.

Page last updated 27/06/07

Geez Hobot you might consider backing off the red I'll a little bit.....

namibchris · Jun 7, 2015

hobot said:
ugh i am mostly dragged kicking-screaming or knocked senseless through life events. Most recent quantum mechanics description outside the Standard Model is known a Q-hydrodynamics because it treats particles not as blurry wave packets everywhere at once in one universe but as very sharp distinct point locations along flow paths that move through multi-universes so close together we can not tell which one its in till observed somehow. Going by the Standard Model everywhere our telescopes are pointed is collapsing the cosmos so in time we will be like the room full of cats that eat each other up till nothing left but fading Schrodingers Cheshire cat grin... QHD uses simple math not complex probabilities with relativistic compensations (I once had to do with slide rule in physical chemistry course) but gives identical predictions so now on equal footing of any reality we can think about. Do note in my cosmos symbol is mirror image - which you are part of involuntarily - so evidence no freewill exists and proof that many folks or even yourself alone doing same thing over and over like in Commandos fasteners > can expect various results over time/existence.

Below implies that lock tabs or safety wire on exhaust nuts is merely a rabbit foot good luck charm, not really involved in anything but feeling like a good mechanic & lucky enough about your fate to ride afterward. I avoid funny beliefs w/o logic and expect to loose engine or die trying so feel lucky my prediction was false that time around. LOL 15+ min of no motion runing, hehehehahahahohoho off to the funny farm where its logical to close the gates after cows escaped, if going by consensus of new age school crew experts on AccesssNorton. I will fit springs to Peel Alu rose nuts as can not bang on them like good ole steel versions.

Fitting Exhaust Lockrings & Exhaust Lockring Tab WashersTech Talk Page http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk

Do not bend the exhaust lockring, tab washer tabs, over when you first fit them. Tighten the lockrings up *as much as you can* upon initial installation. After your first ride out, when you return home, run the bike for *at least* 15 Minutes WITHOUT RIDING IT. This will slightly over heat the exhaust posts and you can tighten the lockrings some more.

*Repeat* the tightening process, when you come back off a ride and *cannot tighten the lockrings any more*, this is when you bend over the locktabs.

Page last updated 27/06/07

Geez Hobot you might consider backing off the red I'll a little bit.....

edgefinder · Jun 7, 2015

Namibchris, It wouldn't have made sense if Steve had just said Look in the mirror, from both sides, eat a cat, milk of magnesia, BFH.

Hobot · Jun 7, 2015

Aw shoot get em on how ever and hope it does not beat threads up or twist em out. My ramble will only make sense if current on mysteries of mechanisms of existence which seems magical to me now - with death taking us out about the time we get things worked out and working for us. I have tried the normal world reality states and find it rather a downer so prefer my head in clouds with just a toe nail in touch with Earth. I find the hammer and sickle labor and thread saving with compact storage or carry than 2-4 ft breaker bar needing caution not to lift or tip bike over w/o a helper. There is some life relief learning more and more about less and less. What would be recommendation to torque alu exht nuts? I would like to see examples of tension springs set up on the nuts then might only have to hand tighten and then just put spring in new hole till stable.

petejohno · Jun 7, 2015

I have used the original locking tabs for many years and they work well. Brass threaded inserts are essential. I tighten the exhaust nuts then get the engine warm, re-tighten the nuts and tab over the locking rings. Never had a problem with the exhaust nuts loosening after this and , if the tabs are secured well, they don't rattle either.

johno

Lock Washers:Exhaust Nutz

Similar threads