Sprockets,Nuts and Broken Washers - Is yours ok?

Fast Eddie

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The 961 has this reputation as a stunning looking bike that rides like nothing else but you must expect to have to put up with faults ranging from minor electrical to major mechanical. Some of my biker friends think I'm a total idiot for spending so much on a bike with so many faults. That someone is putting effort in to improve the flaws/ build issues can only improve the reputation of the bike and if Norton had any sense they would be paying very close attention to the work being done by people like Ollie who, at the end of the day, is a fan of the 961 and just wants to turn it into how it should have been when it left the factory.

Many manufacturers have worked out that owners want to customise their bikes and actively encourage it rather than engaging in legal copyright disputes. To us a customised 961 is one that doesn't break down every few months, idles and doesn't spew oil.
Clive, the issue here is that some people view problems as a negative, something to be avoided, “don’t bring me problems, bring me solutions“ etc.

Conversely, some see problems as an indicator that something in their product or process can be improved. And then act upon it. I’ve seen this first hand, I worked at Toyota who are master at this. Their approach to problems was so different, it was amazing. I’ve seen senior Japanese managers thank operators who crashed expensive machine tools “thank you for highlighting a problem in our programming” whereas they’d have been fired in many companies! They also train ALL employees in logical problem solving and shun fashionable but useless 6 Sigma type gimmickry.

I once had a long chat with a big TVR dealer, he was like Ollie or Richard in the TVR world, fixing big shit that simply should not have needed fixing. Instead of listening to them, or even stealing their ideas, TVR just denied any such issues, stripped them of their franchise, tried to silence them in court, etc,etc. Of course, TVR went bust shortly after largely due to the massive cost of warranty claims!

Garner and Skinner are out of that same mould. Instead of looking inwards at their products and processes, they spent their energy on arguing against / silencing / undermining such people.

The oil cooler smacking the front fender sticks in my mind as a clear example of Garner / Skinners approach... It’s a clearly visible issue that any customer can actually see, its well documented and discussed on the Internet. Fixing it would be zero cost and take very little time or effort... yet NOTHING was done. If they can’t be arsed to fix this, why should we think they’d fix invisible internal mechanical issues...?!

Quite honestly, there’s no wonder TVS didn’t want to be involved in legacy warranties!

I hope Skinner still reads this, and that perhaps he might reflect a little.
 
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Clive, the issue here is that some people view problems as a negative, something to be avoided, “don’t bring me problems, bring me solutions“ etc.

Conversely, some see problems as an indicator that something in their product or process can be improved. And then act upon it. I’ve seen this first hand, I worked at Toyota who are master at this. Their approach to problems was so different, it was amazing. I’ve seen senior Japanese managers thank operators who crashed expensive machine tools “thank you for highlighting a problem in our programming” whereas they’d have been fired in many companies! They also train ALL employees in logical problem solving and shun fashionable but useless 6 Sigma type gimmickry.

———- and after WW2, the Japanese started a programme to improve quality control, based on proper statistical methods taught to them by an American... the kind that BUILDS IN quality, not the kind where you weed out the rejects AFTER you have made them!!! I have yet to see any evidence of this at Norton and many other Brit firms, and it is now 75 years since the war ended.....
 

Fast Eddie

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Indeed Jan, several prominent American experts supported the effort during the US occupation of Japan after having had tremendous success doing the same in US industry for the war effort.

The Japanese related to their teaching strongly as selling a good quality product kinda gelled with their concepts of honour and pride and honesty.

But some companies also recognised that as well as the above, it was simply good for business. Fixing poor quality costs money. Selling poor quality repels customers and drives down the price. Hence the teaching of Crosby who preached “quality is free”.

As you say though, most of this learning seemed to be missed by large parts (but not all) of British industry.

I worked at Rolls Royce (cars) for a while in the pre German days. I pointed out to them the terrible fact that EVERY car came off the line at the end for repair. “Absolutely” they said “it shows our dedication to good quality”. I was flabbergasted and my protestations about building in the quality ‘right first time’ fell on deaf (or ignorant) ears !
 
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S.Skinner had prompted that Ollie must remove his external Oilfilter kit from the website. ( A thiel Motorsport development)
Every part from Ollie for the 961 is redisigned and improved and at least tested.
Rocker bushings, rocker shafts, pistons, swing arms, mappings, gaskets , valve guards and so on. No copies, improved parts.
He had also a lot of trouble when he was offering his exhaustsystems.
S.Skinner was always complaining that Ollie interferes his (Skinners) system.
it is just strange that engines which have been overhauled at thiel Motorsport run very well.

Ollie is only smiling for this behavior.

Regards
Panetone
Does anybody know were I can obtain rocker bushes, adjusting the tappers found that the rockers did not move freely on inspection 4 of the 8 bushes were loose in the rocker arm. Tried Norton but drew a blank.
 
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And why can't women understand that the £1000+ I saved by doing the work myself mean that it makes a new Lewis Leathers jacket absolutely free? No grasp of economics at all...
And don't start on women and handbags. . . . . o_O
 

Clive

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Does anybody know were I can obtain rocker bushes, adjusting the tappers found that the rockers did not move freely on inspection 4 of the 8 bushes were loose in the rocker arm. Tried Norton but drew a blank.
From the above sounds like Ollie could be a good starting point....
How many miles have you done?
 
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Does anybody know were I can obtain rocker bushes, adjusting the tappers found that the rockers did not move freely on inspection 4 of the 8 bushes were loose in the rocker arm. Tried Norton but drew a blank.
Send some pictures to Thiel Motorsport, Ollie has different bushings for the Rockers. He can also overhaul your rockers with new customized bushings and new shafts.
After the overhaul they are better than new.

Panetone
 
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Does anybody know were I can obtain rocker bushes, adjusting the tappers found that the rockers did not move freely on inspection 4 of the 8 bushes were loose in the rocker arm. Tried Norton but drew a blank.
Email Ollie Thiel at Thiel Motorsports in Germany .
 
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THIS is exactly why it took 7 months to get my tranny. It had gone bad at 700 miles. I've called the company and I forgot which person I spoke to. Does a Mr. Green sound familiar? He said the tranny that had been wrapped and ready to send to NY has been sitting on his desk waiting to clear the red tape. The company couldn't be sure it was any fault of their own. The total denial and arrogance of them. So, of course, like any other employee that stepped up the plate to help with the warranty issues, he was eventually sacked. They even had the nerve to tell me it was because he was too helpful and generous with the bike owners. Go figure.
 
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From the above sounds like Ollie could be a good starting point....
How many miles have you done?
Just come from a 90 mile run and going well so the mileage is 8124. I will get in touch with Ollie shortly and try and get it sorted over winter lay up. I loctited the bushes back in and freed up them up to take the shaft but will investigate again to see if the bushes are tight on the shaft. The problem is there are 2 bushes to each rocker if either of the bushes move inward they will cut off the oil supply to the bushes and shaft. Keep u updated.
 

Clive

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Send some pictures to Thiel Motorsport, Ollie has different bushings for the Rockers. He can also overhaul your rockers with new customized bushings and new shafts.
After the overhaul they are better than new.

Panetone
It sounds as though Norton needs to give Ollie a job on product development! Imagine perfectly engineered bikes leaving the factory.......

Thank you for this information - do you have an idea of cost?
 

ntst8

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9700 miles here and, following a check inspired by this thread, just found a loose sprocket nut.
For all sorts or reasons it is 6 months since the bike has been out, but horrible graunch and juddery starts on the last run are now explained.
And yes the file did get another good workout on the chain marks on the alloy cover.
 
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BLIGHTYBRIT/SF

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9700 miles here and, following a check inspired by this thread, just found a loose sprocket nut.
For all sorts or reasons it is 6 months since the bike has been out, but horrible graunch and juddery starts on the last run are now explained.
And yes the file did get another good workout on the chain marks on the alloy cover.
. Any pics by any chance ?
 

nopdog

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I checked mine. All seems ok but lock washer doesn’t look that strong. So I want to replace it.
Where do you get a new one?
I think Panetone said Ollie makes a better Lock washer and maybe a better nut.
Could someone confirm that or point me in the right direction please.
Thanks
 
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I checked mine. All seems ok but lock washer doesn’t look that strong. So I want to replace it.
Where do you get a new one?
I think Panetone said Ollie makes a better Lock washer and maybe a better nut.
Could someone confirm that or point me in the right direction please.
Thanks
Use LOCTITE on the threads and torque to spec. remember reverse threads . It will stay put using the Norton Lock tab washer , mine does just checked . The ones coming loose must have been put on wrong . Also ,can't you use the Norton lock tab washer and increase the size of the tabs too ? At least on the nut flat face side ? Order from Ollie Thiel or Norton .

From Richard-7 manual :

 
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BLIGHTYBRIT/SF

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This is what the damage looks like Richard , from my bike . No big deal just file it off .

. Trying not to being too much of a thick here but , where /what the damage on that , I’m must be going more blind than I thought ( & I do have an appt for laser surgery on the 22nd ) can’t seem to work out what’s occurring in the pic
 

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