Latest email from Factory !!!!

But that's part of the problem - I love my 961CR so much and for the previous 4 years it has been my only bike. I love riding it, commute to work on it, and there's nothing else I would change it for. But now there is the prospect of something breaking and finding it difficult to repair so I will have to look at cutting down on my mileage....
 
Clive,
What’s going to break on it?
How long is a piece of string?
Just ride it.
The old original commando’s you were lucky to get 20,000 miles before they went bang.
You can go and buy a new any bike and it’s a roll of the dice.

I bought mine to enjoy and that’s what I’m trying to do if it goes bang or stops I’ll try to deal with it then.
 
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nopdog said:
Clive,
What’s going to break on it?
How long is a piece of string?
Just ride it.
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Could be something stupid like a ring gear, piston or particularly a gearbox part which could be expensive and put it off the road. I bought a cheap little zxr400 as a track bike 'cos it's hard work getting the Norton round the hairpin at Mallory Park and it sat for 4 months while the garage sourced serviceable second hand gearbox gears. And unlike the 'classic' Nortons there are not lots of second hand ones around for spares. I was seriously thinking of having a spare engine/gearbox as I intend to keep the bike forever and was quoted £6k from Old New Norton. Cheaper than buying/taxing/insuring a second bike and gives you a cool paperweight for the desk at work...
 
The comparison to the original old Commandos is not a good one.

You can probably just about build a new old bike these days, the spare availability is THAT good.

You can get service parts for them probably quicker than most new bikes!

I’m not being negative, but it’s a fact that if you search this forum alone you will find evidence of plenty of potential, serious, mechanical failures on the 961.

Living with that ‘roll of the dice’ is cool WHEN such failures are recoverable / fixable. But without access to spare parts, it is a whole different ball game IMHO!
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
It seems to me that we may be intent on painting Birmingham Norton (BN) with a similar brush as Garner Norton, before they’ve had time to get any on the canvas.
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Garner was a crook who hopefully do jail time so no comparison, between CEO1 and CEO2 TVS Norton seem to have lost their way, they have no strategy except to stay well away from legal lability trouble even if it means deserting all the current owners. They said the NEC show would reveal more but other than an odd fascination for replicating the Earles Court orange seat no news came.

The brushes are very different.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Living with that ‘roll of the dice’ is cool WHEN such failures are recoverable / fixable. But without access to spare parts, it is a whole different ball game IMHO!
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It looks as though we have identified where the gearbox came from but the chances of getting spares would be zero. So what happens when something comes loose in the gearbox and mushes everything up? There are companies like Nova who could make one-off spares but I can't even imagine the cost. That is my real concern and I came very close, due to a 5p lock washer, that being the case. Old New Norton were quoting around £900 for a complete cluster/ selector set as individual parts were not available.
 
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Clive said:
It looks as though we have identified where the gearbox came from but the chances of getting spares would be zero. So what happens when something comes loose in the gearbox and mushes everything up? There are companies like Nova who could make one-off spares but I can't even imagine the cost. That is my real concern and I came very close, due to a 5p lock washer, that being the case. Old New Norton were quoting around £900 for a complete cluster/ selector set as individual parts were not available.
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The gearbox cluster is supposed to be a variation on a Harley Cassette gearbox fitted to some Sportster for a few years. This has been discussed before but no definitive answer was reached so is it worth opening this up again. Even if a few parts are unique, eg mainshaft clutch end spline, the cluster may be common.
 
Fast Eddie said:
IMHO the letter is not ambiguous.

They are stating that they are not going to supply parts for ‘your’ motorcycle (or a 961 built by the previous firm).

My bet is that any Classic owners will have to give their chassis / engine numbers in order to purchase parts in future.

My only surprise is that Norton even built these Classics. It would have given them a much clearer cut off between the old firm and the new if they’d just not bothered.

But my question now is: how viable are the 20 Classics?

If they did genuinely re-engineer them, I struggle to believe that it was worth doing so for 20 bikes.

So if they did re engineer them, why not build more, and why not sell those re engineered parts to others?

Alternatively, if they did not re engineer them, how can they sell them after raising safety concerns?!

That’s why I asked if any have actually been sold yet.
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Exactly.
These are the questions we’ll never have answers to.
 
ntst8 said:
I read things a bit differently, perhaps rose tinted glasses but I'm expecting from that to be able to buy parts but my problem if they don't fit.
Hope i'm not tempting fate but at least there isn't don't ride notice.
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nopdog said:
I’m with ntst8,
They’ll sell you the parts but no guarantee.
That’s business.
Sounds fine to me.

And fellas stop being so negative. My bike is going fine and I haven’t heard of any blow ups or seizures.
We should be happy that we are the “proud” owners of these cycles.
I’ve just clicked over 20,000 km of pretty trouble free spirited riding well except for tossing it down the road. Bikes all fixed. But that’s another story.
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What year is your bike?
What do you expect to do when you do need parts that you can not get?
We’re not being negative, the letter clearly says…… “not your motorcycle”.

What’s chapping us is that they do have spares that can fit and work on all of our bikes. So sell us these parts with a understanding and legal agreement that we the buyer take responsibility that TVS is in no way responsible if that part failed.

I don’t see why some here are having a hard time comprehending what that letter / email says. TVS made approximately 20 classics and so far it’s said nobody owns ones. No way in hell did TVS spend anytime “re-engineering the 961.

We all seen pictures of the 861 being assembled at TVS. But do you really think they re-engineered anything? I mean it’s possible they may have used better quality components such as Bosch sensors, injectors, etc. But do you really believe they redesigned items like the clutch or anything mechanical?

NO WAY!
Not for a bike model they don’t even advertise or have a motor to. They don’t own the rights to the 961 motor.

Case closed.

One last thing.
Some owners that own a 961 may still have a bike payment or bank note on their bike. How great it must feel knowing that they are paying on something that they can not get parts for to repair the bike if and when it were to need repair service.
 
Voodooo said:
What’s chapping us is that they do have spares that can fit and work on all of our bikes. So sell us these parts with a understanding and legal agreement that we the buyer take responsibility that TVS is in no way responsible if that part failed.
Click to expand...
So TVS are balancing the dichotomy of a) upsetting existing 961 owners who probably aren't going to buy a v4 from them against b) selling parts which may come back failed, possible legal implications and detriment to their reputation. You're talking about TVS the risking the legal responsibilities of different countries.....

Maybe move the parts to a separate company who sell them as executive paperweights Definitely not to be fitted to a motorcycle.

To them reliability is everything. Look at the investment in testing machines and procedures they proudly show us. Look at the testing taken place on the 961 to establish its reliability. I am certainly disappointed and feel that New New Norton have cut me adrift but am still loyal to the brand and hope they start producing bikes deserving of the name Norton.
 
Clive said:
It looks as though we have identified where the gearbox came from but the chances of getting spares would be zero. So what happens when something comes loose in the gearbox and mushes everything up? There are companies like Nova who could make one-off spares but I can't even imagine the cost. That is my real concern and I came very close, due to a 5p lock washer, that being the case. Old New Norton were quoting around £900 for a complete cluster/ selector set as individual parts were not available.
Click to expand...
Hi Clive , I must have missed something . Did you say you had a transmission failure ?
 
Clive said:
So TVS are balancing the dichotomy of a) upsetting existing 961 owners who probably aren't going to buy a v4 from them against b) selling parts which may come back failed, possible legal implications and detriment to their reputation. You're talking about TVS the risking the legal responsibilities of different countries.....

Maybe move the parts to a separate company who sell them as executive paperweights Definitely not to be fitted to a motorcycle.

To them reliability is everything. Look at the investment in testing machines and procedures they proudly show us. Look at the testing taken place on the 961 to establish its reliability. I am certainly disappointed and feel that New New Norton have cut me adrift but am still loyal to the brand and hope they start producing bikes deserving of the name Norton.
Click to expand...
If they are so concerned about risking their new and not proven image, why did they build the classic with existing parts? Perhaps why they supposedly haven’t sold them? So why did they waste the time to even make them?

They could easily sell the spare parts as is or on a auction such as eBay. As is means as is. No warranty or responsibility.
 
Voodooo said:
If they are so concerned about risking their new and not proven image, why did they build the classic with existing parts? Perhaps why they supposedly haven’t sold them? So why did they waste the time to even make them?

They could easily sell the spare parts as is or on a auction such as eBay. As is means as is. No warranty or responsibility.
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Hi Voodoo , This has really got a lot of people stirred up ! Maybe , just maybe some good will come from this . Like a 961 Classic ? But I know we waited so long already and just have to wait some more. Until then feed Ollie , feed TAB . I know that I can't sponsor/commission hand made parts for my bike every time I need an engine part. What I don't know is why Jinlang or whoever it is that has the engine rights hasn't stepped in yet ? Maybe they are waiting for Norton to make their next move , show their cards so to speak.
 
Clive said:
So TVS are balancing the dichotomy of a) upsetting existing 961 owners who probably aren't going to buy a v4 from them against b) selling parts which may come back failed, possible legal implications and detriment to their reputation. You're talking about TVS the risking the legal responsibilities of different countries.....

Maybe move the parts to a separate company who sell them as executive paperweights Definitely not to be fitted to a motorcycle.

To them reliability is everything. Look at the investment in testing machines and procedures they proudly show us. Look at the testing taken place on the 961 to establish its reliability. I am certainly disappointed and feel that New New Norton have cut me adrift but am still loyal to the brand and hope they start producing bikes deserving of the name Norton.
Click to expand...
I can't buy a V4 , when will that be possible ?
 
TonyA said:
Hi Clive , I must have missed something . Did you say you had a transmission failure ?
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Almost. Covered in another thread. Design fault caused output sprocket nut lock washer to disintegrate so nut unscrews and output shaft drops back into gearbox and dogs incorrectly engaged to lock gearbox. Not the first one to fail....... Wasn't sure about selectors so wanted to replace as precaution. When told not available had close look at existing and carried out a minor realignment and so far all good. Just slight damage to thread of output shaft.
 
Voodooo said:
If they are so concerned about risking their new and not proven image, why did they build the classic with existing parts? Perhaps why they supposedly haven’t sold them? So why did they waste the time to even make them?
Click to expand...
Someone must have told them that the 961 was a proven and reliable design with many thousands sold and ready to go into production with problem-free components. Now who would do such a thing:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Just out in Andover's Source newsletter.

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Norton Motorcycles/Meeting with Dr.Hentschel​

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We tried to get Dr. Robert Hentschel down to Andover to see our operation but that didn’t work. His PA told us he couldn’t spare the four hours driving time from Solihull to Andover and I later realized this was not an excuse, but true.

In Solihull I went into the factory where, in the foyer, five historical Nortons from the Loram collection that Norton bought are displayed: A Commando “S”, a P11 (or was it a G15? In retrospect I am not sure), a couple of early cammy Nortons and a 16H. All of them nicely presented if not, in case of the cammies, correct in detail. All of them looked unused post-restoration. Then again, the same goes for most of the bikes in the NMM, and other museums.

Dr. Hentschel picked me up in the foyer and first we went through the customer experience area, quality control department and the start of production with the first ”new” 961 on a workbench. Dr. Hentschel told me he had just assembled his first 961 engine that very morning and what a fun experience it was for him.

In quality control three people went through mountains of rockers that the Garner regime had purchased from China for 961 production. The majority had faults that need to be rectified before they are useable for quality production. Not something Donington was ever concerned about!

The quality control equipment is state-of-the-art and, though 3 decades apart, reminded me of the quality control room in Shenstone. Shenstone was working to tolerances on the rotaries that were never before achieved on these engines. They were so stringent I remember the disbelief in the faces of “Wankel RD”’s staff, Felix Wankel’s old research company in Lindau kept alive for decades by the German taxpayers, when I was allowed to give them the details.

After the tour we sat down in Dr. Hentschel’s office and discussed points of mutual interest. I found him friendly, open, very interested and enthusiastic, and with a good sense of humour. I understood that he has a 48-hour-a-day job getting whole organization into working, production mode and why Andover Norton is probably a #127 priority to him.

That said, I enjoyed the meeting and hope to see him again soon. How about coming to our Open Day on the 21st May, Dr. Hentschel?​


So no new TVS 961' s had been completed as of Feb when Joe visited the UK !!! and they are using SG's Chinese sourced parts to make the TVS 961's.​
 
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Clive said:
....

Maybe move the parts to a separate company who sell them as executive paperweights Definitely not to be fitted to a motorcycle.

....
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I think SG had already done this.
Jinlang owns rights to produce 961's.
If they built these bikes, they will have to supply parts as well.
You'll have to buy parts made in a Communist country, but they should be available.
 
From Andover Norton’s newsletter “The Source”….

” and the start of production with the first ”new” 961 on a workbench. Dr. Hentschel told me he had just assembled his first 961 engine that very morning and what a fun experience it was for him”

That is encouraging for anybody intending to buy a TVS 961 as Joe stated he visited the factory in February.
 
TonyA said:
Hi Voodoo , This has really got a lot of people stirred up ! Maybe , just maybe some good will come from this . Like a 961 Classic ? But I know we waited so long already and just have to wait some more. Until then feed Ollie , feed TAB . I know that I can't sponsor/commission hand made parts for my bike every time I need an engine part. What I don't know is why Jinlang or whoever it is that has the engine rights hasn't stepped in yet ? Maybe they are waiting for Norton to make their next move , show their cards so to speak.
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I understand. But I’m not only interested in engine or transmission parts. I’m also wanting fenders, seats and tails. Mainly dominator. I don’t see the risk to selling these sort of parts.
 
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