Latest email from Factory !!!!

Here’s my questions and thoughts in Bold, Italic print.

Hello,

Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding to your enquiry; as you know we have been working through the issues left by the previous Norton company, NMUL Realisations Ltd., and although we (The Norton Motorcycle Co. Ltd.) bought some of the assets of NMUL we did not take on any liability or responsibility for any parts or products made and sold by that company.

Yes you have. You built around 20 961 bikes with parts left over from Garners Norton.


We have now almost completed this work and unfortunately we have found that the parts we inherited came from a variety of sources, with very little documentation to show providence, quality standards, or important information regarding compatibility with different models. All this means that we cannot be certain that the parts would be of the necessary quality and standard to ensure rider safety. Therefore, we have taken the difficult decision that we cannot sell any parts we haven’t sourced, or tested; nor can we service, maintain or repair any bikes that we have not built. Unfortunately, this includes your motorcycle.

AGAIN. You (TVS) built approximately 20 bikes with left over stock. How did you build these bikes and accept the responsibility of its quality and safety?


This isn’t a decision we have taken lightly; we have spent a significant amount of time checking the stock of parts in the hope of finding a way to support you, but it would be irresponsible of us to sell parts or service motorcycles without being confident we could guarantee your safety

Provide us a legal form to sign that allows the buyer / end user, that accept the spare parts as no responsibility to the seller.


All motorcycles built and sold by us will, of course, be fully supported through Norton Birmingham, and in time a global network of Norton Customer Centres. Our Parts Department will shortly open, and when this happens, we will sell parts that are fitted to our own Norton Commando Classic 961 only. For the reasons set out above we will not be able to guarantee that they will fit your bike, nor that they are suitable or fit for purpose on your motorcycle.

So did you make any changes to the “classic 961” you already built? I think not. You used left over stock. Your social media shows no information of any such bike in your line up called a “classic”.
Therefore, how can you service and guarantee owner safety and satisfaction to owners of the “classic” when TVS had nothing to do with its manufacturing of parts?

Once again, please accept my apologies for the length of time it has taken us to get to this point, we had hoped to find a better solution for you but that has not been possible due to the issues we have inherited.
 
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So, they will only stock and sell parts they deem suitable for the TVS built bikes, they will not supply any parts for pre TVS bikes so working out if they fit a pre TVS bike is your responsibility, if they fit they are not responsible for function either.

Rather than chucking the old spares stock out, they should offer it to Andover Norton at a knock down price.
 
Last edited:
Voodooo said:
We have now almost completed this work and unfortunately we have found that the parts we inherited came from a variety of sources, with very little documentation to show providence, quality standards, or important information regarding compatibility with different models. All this means that we cannot be certain that the parts would be of the necessary quality and standard to ensure rider safety. Therefore, we have taken the difficult decision that we cannot sell any parts we haven’t sourced, or tested; nor can we service, maintain or repair any bikes that we have not built. Unfortunately, this includes your motorcycle.
Click to expand...

Really,
"Very little documentation to show providence, quality standards....."

Isn't Simon Skinner now employed by TVS? He was SG's chief design engineer, no?
He doesn't have the design specs for the 961, V4 components, or at least know where the info was saved/secured?
This statement seems patently ridiculous.
But if true, it illustrates just how deficient and negligent the old Norton company's "engineering/QA/QC" operation actually was.
 
Voodooo said:
Here’s my questions and thoughts in Bold, Italic print.

Hello,

Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding to your enquiry; as you know we have been working through the issues left by the previous Norton company, NMUL Realisations Ltd., and although we (The Norton Motorcycle Co. Ltd.) bought some of the assets of NMUL we did not take on any liability or responsibility for any parts or products made and sold by that company.

Yes you have. You built around 20 961 bikes with parts left over from Garners Norton.


We have now almost completed this work and unfortunately we have found that the parts we inherited came from a variety of sources, with very little documentation to show providence, quality standards, or important information regarding compatibility with different models. All this means that we cannot be certain that the parts would be of the necessary quality and standard to ensure rider safety. Therefore, we have taken the difficult decision that we cannot sell any parts we haven’t sourced, or tested; nor can we service, maintain or repair any bikes that we have not built. Unfortunately, this includes your motorcycle.

AGAIN. You (TVS) built approximately 20 bikes with left over stock. How did you build these bikes and accept the responsibility of its quality and safety?


This isn’t a decision we have taken lightly; we have spent a significant amount of time checking the stock of parts in the hope of finding a way to support you, but it would be irresponsible of us to sell parts or service motorcycles without being confident we could guarantee your safety

Provide us a legal form to sign that allows the buyer / end user, that accept the spare parts as no responsibility to the seller.


All motorcycles built and sold by us will, of course, be fully supported through Norton Birmingham, and in time a global network of Norton Customer Centres. Our Parts Department will shortly open, and when this happens, we will sell parts that are fitted to our own Norton Commando Classic 961 only. For the reasons set out above we will not be able to guarantee that they will fit your bike, nor that they are suitable or fit for purpose on your motorcycle.

So did you make any changes to the “classic 961” you already built? I think not. You used left over stock. Your social media shows no information of any such bike in your line up called a “classic”.
Therefore, how can you service and guarantee owner safety and satisfaction to owners of the “classic” when TVS had nothing to do with its manufacturing of parts?

Once again, please accept my apologies for the length of time it has taken us to get to this point, we had hoped to find a better solution for you but that has not been possible due to the issues we have inherited.
Click to expand...
I wonder if any of these ‘classic 961s’ have actually been delivered ??
 
BritTwit said:
Really,
"Very little documentation to show providence, quality standards....."

Isn't Simon Skinner now employed by TVS? He was SG's chief design engineer, no?
He doesn't have the design specs for the 961, V4 components, or at least know where the info was saved/secured?
This statement seems patently ridiculous.
But if true, it illustrates just how deficient and negligent the old Norton company's "engineering/QA/QC" operation actually was.
Click to expand...
My guess is it was that bad.
On top of that, I suspect many suppliers, burnt by Garner, told TVS where to shove such low volume and unprofitable business, or quoted such high prices as to make it unviable for TVS.
 
I read this slightly differently. Seems to me that TVS are saying that they will sell only parts that they have fitted to the Classic - leaving us to purchase at our own risk; they are thus covered legally you would think. Let’s face it, 95% of the parts will be unchanged and/or will likely be compatible with earlier machines. The ‘brains trust’ (ie you lot) will doubtless work out the detail whilst Ollie and other (hopefully contractually released) aftermarket suppliers will fill the gap.

Is this not good news Nortonistas, TVS are telling us that they will be selling 961 parts!? Cup half full or do I need to stamp on my rose tinted specs!?
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
I read this slightly differently. Seems to me that TVS are saying that they will sell only parts that they have fitted to the Classic - leaving us to purchase at our own risk; they are thus covered legally you would think. Let’s face it, 95% of the parts will be unchanged and/or will likely be compatible with earlier machines. The ‘brains trust’ (ie you lot) will doubtless work out the detail whilst Ollie and other (hopefully contractually released) aftermarket suppliers will fill the gap.

Is this not good news Nortonistas, TVS are telling us that they will be selling 961 parts!? Cup half full or do I need to stamp on my rose tinted specs!?
Click to expand...
I am not sure what to make of what was said from Norton. Hopefully the will sell us parts .
 
TonyA said:
I am not sure what to make of what was said from Norton. Hopefully the will sell us parts .
Click to expand...
Right. I don't want to read anything into what TVS is saying.
I want TVS to come out and say, yes they will sell parts, or no they will not.
If they will, then when approximately will this begin.
If not then we know we'll need aftermarket support from Jinlang, or who knows who.
 
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But they clearly say……

“Unfortunately This includes your motorcycle”

They also said……

“This isn’t a decision we have taken lightly; we have spent a significant amount of time checking the stock of parts in the hope of finding a way to support you, but it would be irresponsible of us to sell parts or service motorcycles without being confident we could guarantee your safety”

To me that’s a big NOOOOO
 

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I had the same email, I must say it was disheartening.... They must have a pile of parts or they wouldn't have been able to build the Classic 961. Will anybody want to take delivery of a Classic which maybe built from unsafe parts?

Is the parts department now open ? If so what parts are they selling and who too? Have many new V4s been sold? Do they need new parts already?

What will happen if someone phones and asks for a clutch/primary gasket or starter motor for a classic? 'Sir, do you own a classic?'
Answer 1 'No, I own a café racer..'
'Sorry we can only sell these unsafe parts to classic owner's'
Or
'We don't sell any 961 parts'

Answer 2 ' I don't own a Norton, I just like the look of the parts

'That's ok, just make sure they aren't fitted to any bike... please sign the disclaimer '

I really hope they don't just go to landfill...

Gazz
 
Secondly, as they aren't having anything to do with SG Nortons parts or service they can give us access to the later OMEX ECUs. Surely OMEX can let us in now...

If my EML light comes on again I want to know why..

Gazz
 
I’m just curious. This is a 961.
I’m curious as to how many parts on this bike that they call the “classic” has been changed by TVS?

I’m gonna take a guess and say zero.
Yet it was good enough to assemble and possibly sell. Interesting.

Not to mention these pics are taken off TVS Nortons website. So they advertise a bike they feel may be unsafe, not to their standards and you are not allowed to get parts for. Brilliant.
 

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Voodooo said:
But they clearly say……

“Unfortunately This includes your motorcycle”

They also said……

“This isn’t a decision we have taken lightly; we have spent a significant amount of time checking the stock of parts in the hope of finding a way to support you, but it would be irresponsible of us to sell parts or service motorcycles without being confident we could guarantee your safety”

To me that’s a big NOOOOO
Click to expand...
Hey V2D3,

You may be right mate, who knows. What Norton Birmingham (NB) do not say however, is that they used the original (meaning poor, no provenance, faulty) parts to build the Classics. The tone of their email would suggest that they aim to do the right thing from a safety (cover your ass legal) perspective. They also note that they will be giving full suppport, meaning full parts availability to Classic owners.

They spent a significant period of time sorting the Classics I guess. We must assume then surely, that they resolved all parts/design issues with the bike - who knows? We are all speculating - time will tell. I for one am still hopeful that Classic parts will be available to us. They are in the game to make money - parts and accessories are a massive part of any motorcycle business - just ask Triumph!

Latest email from Factory !!!!
 
Is there anyone that can actually get near a classic and take a bucket load of photos of one? I've managed to find a few - but has anyone got any good ones, maybe from the recent shows and the like?
 
Still trying to get more information about what's going on - I know a lot of time and effort was spent testing the 961, including using a third party company, and identifying areas which needed resolving for reliability so I suppose they must have come to the conclusion that there was too much re-engineering needed. And for what - a few bikes manufactured under the small series type approval rules and spares to support 961 owners whose bikes were made by a different company? Maybe now some of the NOC members who were so opposed to the 'new' Nortons might accept us as, like them, we have to rely on third party companies to provide spares... Perhaps their legal dept. has unravelled the implications of the Jinglang 961 engine deal? As they are supposed to be respecting the heritage of the brand I am feeling a bit let down at the moment....
 
"Our Parts Department will shortly open, and when this happens, we will sell parts that are fitted to our own Norton Commando Classic 961 only."

I took this to mean that the intent is to build more Classic 961s, using parts verified as meeting TVS' standards. Seems pointless opening a parts department to cover around twenty previously made 961s. Maybe they were assembled from hand-selected parts.
 
komet said:
"Our Parts Department will shortly open, and when this happens, we will sell parts that are fitted to our own Norton Commando Classic 961 only."

I took this to mean that the intent is to build more Classic 961s, using parts verified as meeting TVS' standards. Seems pointless opening a parts department to cover around twenty previously made 961s. Maybe they were assembled from hand-selected parts.
Click to expand...
This is all very confusing..
I own a 2016 mk2 961.
All I want is to be able to buy some parts when needed.
To me this is corporate lawyer speak or gobbledygook. Can TVS just tell us what they are going to do for us Norton owners in plain English.
They are gradually loosing their support base. If they alienate us who is going to buy their bikes?
 
MAK said:
To me this is corporate lawyer speak or gobbledygook. Can TVS just tell us what they are going to do for us Norton owners in plain English.
They are gradually loosing their support base. If they alienate us who is going to buy their bikes?
Click to expand...
I think the letter says it clearly, "we will leave you stranded". Look, it's quite obvious. TVS wants to get out of the 961 debacle the sooner the better.
If they intended to build the 961 in any sizeable number, they would have produced it a long time ago while customers craved for it.
The 961 model was on a back burner, now it seems the burner has had a flame out.
To me, it's evident they have put their resources on other/new models.

- Knut
 
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