Keep an eye on the Avon RoadRiders tread seperation
- Thread starter concours
- Start date
- Status
I have identical cracks on a TT100 rear on a bike. I asked the guy who I bought the tyre off and he told me it was from running the tyre at too low a pressure. Not sure about that as I used to run the rear at 32 psi. He said it should be at 34 - 35. I now run it at 34 but the cracks are already there. Not sure if a couple of psi could make much difference. I know others run them at much lower pressures and have had now problems.
Anyway something to think about.
HTH.
Anyway something to think about.
HTH.
concours
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
- Messages
- 8,791
Keith1069 said:Are we talking about these cracks? Mine are same date code but the rear is flatted and now UK illegal in the centre. Was considering going back to BT45's but the front has years left in it and unsure about compatibility. Just completed a 185 mile run to London and Brighton for the ACE Burnup and on the way back noticed it was a bit wobbly trying to stay with a mate on an ancient ('94) Blade. Found 20 psi in the rear and having refitted the centre stand (trying to diganose a rattle) found a huge flatspot right where my wheel weights are. Now, the bike was off the road for 15 months while I was out of commission but it was on the stand not the wheels so I'd expect the Iso rubbers to have suffered. It's a 1/8" low spot and was definitely not like that last time I looked. It's only in a 6" arc and I've not been locking up the rear, as if it could! The rim is round at that point and the tyre evenly seated all round. My cracks don't look so bad though the front is noticeable under closeup......... 5600 miles BTW so the rears done ok.
No, NOT those small checkings... the large gaping cracks, review the images closely, pay close attantion to the oblique seperations here:
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2010
- Messages
- 379
Hmm, my .02
Ive worked at a bike shop for 12 years, changed 100s if not 1000s of tires. I have looked at you pictures, and also taken into account of the mfg date and miles. there is definitly something going on with your tread....but ...it is a 3 year old tire and 4000 miles. Alot can happen to tires in that time and distance, Some of that road hazard damage cannot be helped, but the problem is when hitting a hazard (be it a nail, glass, sharp rock or whatever) at speed, the damage is what can start a de- lamination of tread. the constant centrifugal force of a open cut on the tire surface is like itching a rash, just keeps spreading. plus, tires get hot when rolling
I noticed in the 2nd picture, on the left of the tread inside the groove there is cracking in the rubber...that is ultra violet degregation from exposure to the sun, its the same as old car tires sidewalls (its why you see trailers being parked have covers on the tires) UV rays are only getting stronger as we loose ozone.
Also Like I tell the harley riders who complain of bald rear tires after only 1000 miles. all high torque bikes (Nortons included) leave $5.00 worth of rubber on the road at every time you leave a stop sign...harleys even more so because of the aggressive style of "pulling away" that harleys tend to do
Back to the point, I have the exact tires on my commando...they are fabulous and I really enjoy them.....persnally I think your tires have been through some tough rides but you still got a good run from them. I doubt Avon will warranty the tire since it is 3 years old...BUT the tire has a serial/batch number on it...if there are other tire owners in that same batch that have had problems then you chances are good to have them replaced.
Ive worked at a bike shop for 12 years, changed 100s if not 1000s of tires. I have looked at you pictures, and also taken into account of the mfg date and miles. there is definitly something going on with your tread....but ...it is a 3 year old tire and 4000 miles. Alot can happen to tires in that time and distance, Some of that road hazard damage cannot be helped, but the problem is when hitting a hazard (be it a nail, glass, sharp rock or whatever) at speed, the damage is what can start a de- lamination of tread. the constant centrifugal force of a open cut on the tire surface is like itching a rash, just keeps spreading. plus, tires get hot when rolling
I noticed in the 2nd picture, on the left of the tread inside the groove there is cracking in the rubber...that is ultra violet degregation from exposure to the sun, its the same as old car tires sidewalls (its why you see trailers being parked have covers on the tires) UV rays are only getting stronger as we loose ozone.
Also Like I tell the harley riders who complain of bald rear tires after only 1000 miles. all high torque bikes (Nortons included) leave $5.00 worth of rubber on the road at every time you leave a stop sign...harleys even more so because of the aggressive style of "pulling away" that harleys tend to do
Back to the point, I have the exact tires on my commando...they are fabulous and I really enjoy them.....persnally I think your tires have been through some tough rides but you still got a good run from them. I doubt Avon will warranty the tire since it is 3 years old...BUT the tire has a serial/batch number on it...if there are other tire owners in that same batch that have had problems then you chances are good to have them replaced.
concours
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
- Messages
- 8,791
"persnally I think your tires have been through some tough rides but you still got a good run from them."
I've WORN OUT dozens of motorcycle tires in 41 years of riding, seen all manner of funky stuff. Changed every one myself. The tread falling apart doesn't qualify as "a good run" in my book. What kind of "tough rides" do you refer to? Holeshots? Nope, won't abuse the old transmission that way? High speeds? Yup, but way within the tires rated limits. Hard corning? Yup, whenever I can. Ride on crushed rock? nope. Remember, I'm not bitchin that it's worn out, just concerned the TREAD RUBBER is seperating. Do tell.. :lol:
I've WORN OUT dozens of motorcycle tires in 41 years of riding, seen all manner of funky stuff. Changed every one myself. The tread falling apart doesn't qualify as "a good run" in my book. What kind of "tough rides" do you refer to? Holeshots? Nope, won't abuse the old transmission that way? High speeds? Yup, but way within the tires rated limits. Hard corning? Yup, whenever I can. Ride on crushed rock? nope. Remember, I'm not bitchin that it's worn out, just concerned the TREAD RUBBER is seperating. Do tell.. :lol:
Practically all motorcycle tyres are capable of showing these “oblique separations”
The hot tyre thread is injected via a mould, but the wire carcase when made, on the inside of the tyre, is overlapped obliquely before the carcase is inserted in the mould.
I have seen the tyres being made at the Avon factory many moons ago.
It is this that is the culprit when it shows on the outside of the tyre.
Nothing to worry about, as long as you fit the tyre with the arrows pointing the right way, when fitted on wheel.
The hot tyre thread is injected via a mould, but the wire carcase when made, on the inside of the tyre, is overlapped obliquely before the carcase is inserted in the mould.
I have seen the tyres being made at the Avon factory many moons ago.
It is this that is the culprit when it shows on the outside of the tyre.
Nothing to worry about, as long as you fit the tyre with the arrows pointing the right way, when fitted on wheel.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 18,978
Oh man I know better than try that on un-tamed Cdo like Trixie but its right up Ms Peel's ally and flight envelope and now you put it in my mind more clearly I will have to plan on trip up north to find a froozen lake to show how much G force fun them ice spiked speedway guys are having even with their vibration and cold numbed hands. Otherwise it the cracks don't pinch the tube and ya ain't riding two up + cargo on 80 mph freeways in heat wave, likely just cosmetic defects.
Draggin up an old thread, but Avon will be manufacturing and delivering new roadriders to UK dealers in the next two weeks, the dealers are being told this but have no confirmed delivery dates. I found this out whilst trying to get a replacement from my local dealer at Beaulieu. Those UK dealers that have stock are the the old tyres. New tyres will be visually the same but with improved sidewall construction and compound.
In the past I did query the suitability of the weight rating with Avon as the MK3 is very near or exceeds the limits of the tyres if you are two up, with gear and decent rider wear on. Their argument was based on that despite the tyre being very near to its limit the Commando two up with gear would not achieve the speed rating of the tyre so it is considered fit for purpose - looks like they may have gone back to the drawing board with this tyre.
Still an excellent tyre and will certainly be using again.
In the past I did query the suitability of the weight rating with Avon as the MK3 is very near or exceeds the limits of the tyres if you are two up, with gear and decent rider wear on. Their argument was based on that despite the tyre being very near to its limit the Commando two up with gear would not achieve the speed rating of the tyre so it is considered fit for purpose - looks like they may have gone back to the drawing board with this tyre.
Still an excellent tyre and will certainly be using again.
Re the earlier mention of weight ratings and overloads-
The only Avon Roadrider that is recommended for the standard Commando WM2 rear wheel is the Roadrider Universal 3.25x 19. It has a 54V rating. This means it is rated to carry 467 pounds. This will barely cover the weight of a 200or so pound solo rider let alone a passenger and gear. With passenger and gear on there is a gross overload to the rating. Whether it is an early Commando or a Mk 3 with an extra 20 pounds of starter and gear is of no consequence, two up, all Commandos will be overloaded at rear with the only approved Avon tire on there.
For this reason, and because my front rim is damaged, I ordered new wm3 rims for the Commando. Actually I ordered a WM 4 for the rear, to be safe, however a WM3 was sent as the WM4 flanged Akronts were weeks off. The WM3 x 18 allows fitment of an Avon Roadrider rear only 4.00 x 18, which is a big beast of a tire with a 64v rating and a 4 3/4" width, similar to a 1.20, which is intended for WM4 or wider rims.
So with our stock rims and following Avon's numbers, our bikes are all rated solo only (average sized North American or UK people)
Glen
The only Avon Roadrider that is recommended for the standard Commando WM2 rear wheel is the Roadrider Universal 3.25x 19. It has a 54V rating. This means it is rated to carry 467 pounds. This will barely cover the weight of a 200or so pound solo rider let alone a passenger and gear. With passenger and gear on there is a gross overload to the rating. Whether it is an early Commando or a Mk 3 with an extra 20 pounds of starter and gear is of no consequence, two up, all Commandos will be overloaded at rear with the only approved Avon tire on there.
For this reason, and because my front rim is damaged, I ordered new wm3 rims for the Commando. Actually I ordered a WM 4 for the rear, to be safe, however a WM3 was sent as the WM4 flanged Akronts were weeks off. The WM3 x 18 allows fitment of an Avon Roadrider rear only 4.00 x 18, which is a big beast of a tire with a 64v rating and a 4 3/4" width, similar to a 1.20, which is intended for WM4 or wider rims.
So with our stock rims and following Avon's numbers, our bikes are all rated solo only (average sized North American or UK people)
Glen
Yet again, dragging up an old thread, it looks like the new improved roadriders are no better. I have just noticed that my rear is failing with less than a 1000 miles on it. As per this thread I only got it last July so not even a year old. Well peaved and have contacted Avon to get it sorted. The tyre looks like it is splitting along the crown of the tyre longitudinally from the ends of the 's' shaped groove.
This is starting to confirm my suspicion that the tyre is not so universal in the 100/90 19 application as the front is perfect, also I believe the weight rating of the tyre my be a bit optimistic for the rear of the commando.
I will post again when Avon have got back to me, if need be I will ride it to them so they can see it for themselves.
This is starting to confirm my suspicion that the tyre is not so universal in the 100/90 19 application as the front is perfect, also I believe the weight rating of the tyre my be a bit optimistic for the rear of the commando.
I will post again when Avon have got back to me, if need be I will ride it to them so they can see it for themselves.
- Status