Journey into the unknown..

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cliffa

cliffa

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Hi folks,
This weekend I plan to commence the fitment of my Alton starter in combination with the existing Maney outrigger. As I've not stripped a Commando primary before and I have limited imperial sockets could somebody kindly tell me what spanner sizes (or A/F sizes) the clutch and rotor nuts are, as I'd hate to get into it, then have down tools to go and try to buy sockets at the weekend.

Cheers,

cliffa
 
Clutch nut, no help, sorry.
Rotor nut looks like 1/2 Whitworth, although 15/16 wd prob work, too.
 
Ooh Cliffa, you have a Maney outrigger, now I'm jealous! :D If you'd asked this question last July I could have told you straight off, as it is I'm afraid I don't recall now, sorry ... But IIRC, if you have an AF socket set you'll be fine.
 
p.s. to Cliffa: And you're going for an electric foot! I can dream ...! Do you have a primary chain or belt? I'm wondering because of the need to have a one-off spacer made up if you have a belt.
 
Large nut on end of transmission mainshaft is 1 1/2". A recent comment from another forum member indicated that the dish of the countershaft sprocket can interfere with efforts to remove it with wrenches that don't have enough offset. Also saw mentioned -- perhaps by a different member -- that standard manufacture deep socket can be used. Other members in the past have shown two deep sockets welded together, with machining involved, also, to allow for clearance of the mainshaft inside the socket. If acquiring sockets, consider differences between six-point and twelve-point options; I don't know if it matters or not.

Order of disassembly may be important, too. You'll need to consider how to "brake" primary sprockets in order to tighten and loosen things. I believe some people have used the rear brake, and others (Hobot?) have used wedges inserted in various places.


Before loosening or disassembly of rotor and alternator components, consider familiarizing yourself with current clearances between the two.



Finally, I believe I've read mention on the board here that some manuals have incorrect torque value listed for mainshaft nut.






.
 
Cliffa, at the risk of telling something you are already aware of: the torque figure of 70ft/lb for the clutch center nut, as stated in the manual is way too high, use 45ft/lb instead or you may risk distortion of the clip on the mainshaft.
 
Mr. Rick said:
Clutch nut, no help, sorry.
Rotor nut looks like 1/2 Whitworth, although 15/16 wd prob work, too.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time Mr. Rick, much appreciated. I am pleased to report I have a 1/2" Whitworth socket.

I'm also planning to fit a Dyno Dave clutch pushrod seal nut while I have it apart, and by the power of the internet was able to see the from some images that the DD nut is close in size (19mm a/f) to the clutch retaining nut, so I should be good there as well.


Cheers,

cliffa
 
NortonMKIIA850 said:
Ooh Cliffa, you have a Maney outrigger, now I'm jealous! :D If you'd asked this question last July I could have told you straight off, as it is I'm afraid I don't recall now, sorry ... But IIRC, if you have an AF socket set you'll be fine.
Click to expand...


Hi NortonMKIIA850, to be honest I was less than enthusiastic when I realized I need to cut a big hole in the brand new Alton inner primary cover to accommodate the Maney outrigger, but long term I think it will be worth keeping it in place.

Think I might be OK on the socket front now.


Cheers,

cliffa
 
Robert_Norton said:
Large nut on end of transmission mainshaft is 1 1/2". A recent comment from another forum member indicated that the dish of the countershaft sprocket can interfere with efforts to remove it with wrenches that don't have enough offset. Also saw mentioned -- perhaps by a different member -- that standard manufacture deep socket can be used. Other members in the past have shown two deep sockets welded together, with machining involved, also, to allow for clearance of the mainshaft inside the socket. If acquiring sockets, consider differences between six-point and twelve-point options; I don't know if it matters or not.

Order of disassembly may be important, too. You'll need to consider how to "brake" primary sprockets in order to tighten and loosen things. I believe some people have used the rear brake, and others (Hobot?) have used wedges inserted in various places.


Before loosening or disassembly of rotor and alternator components, consider familiarizing yourself with current clearances between the two.



Finally, I believe I've read mention on the board here that some manuals have incorrect torque value listed for mainshaft nut.

.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the advise Robert_Norton,
I intend to really take my time and use my phone to take pics as I go, but to be honest the Alton instructions are very good ( I haven't put them to the test yet though) so hopefully I'll be able to muddle through. Whilst looking for the nut sizes I also saw mention of the reduced torque requirement for the mainshaft nut. Some folks say it should be more like 35ft/lbs. I Need to do some more research on that though.

Cheers,

cliffa.
 
L.A.B. said:
Yes, it says so in the manual (Section C14,1).
Click to expand...


Thanks L.A.B. I have a 1/2' WW socket thankfully. No mention of the mainshaft nut size though, but I think I have it covered.


Cheers,

cliffa
 
NortonMKIIA850 said:
p.s. to Cliffa: And you're going for an electric foot! I can dream ...! Do you have a primary chain or belt? I'm wondering because of the need to have a one-off spacer made up if you have a belt.
Click to expand...


Hi NortonMKIIA850, I recently found out that you only live once. That was quite an eye opener, so I thought what the heck !!

I have a belt drive, but at the moment not sure from which manufacturer. The Alton instructions do give you the dimensions of the spacer requirements for the RGM and Norvil kits, so if it's one of those I should be ok as I have a small Emco hobby lathe which should be able to handle that . If it's not one of those kits Paul Hamon (A.K.A. Mr. Alton) has asked me to provide the details required to make it fit, so as the thread title suggests this is really into the unknown.


Cheers,

cliffa.
 
Last edited:
Peter R said:
Cliffa, at the risk of telling something you are already aware of: the torque figure of 70ft/lb for the clutch center nut, as stated in the manual is way too high, use 45ft/lb instead or you may risk distortion of the clip on the mainshaft.
Click to expand...


Hi Peter,
I only became aware last night whilst trawling the internet for these nut sizes. I was going to do some more research tonight, so thanks very much for the information. Do you rely solely on the tab washer or Loctite it as well (or possibly instead of)?


Cheers,

cliffa.
 
cliffa said:
Hi Peter,
I only became aware last night whilst trawling the internet for these nut sizes. I was going to do some more research tonight, so thanks very much for the information. Do you rely solely on the tab washer or Loctite it as well (or possibly instead of)?


Cheers,

cliffa.
Click to expand...
I used the tab washer in the past, but I once had the nut come adrift, (fortunately close to home) I now use both tab washer and red Loctite.
 
Peter R said:
I used the tab washer in the past, but I once had the nut come adrift, (fortunately close to home) I now use both tab washer and red Loctite.
Click to expand...


Thats good to know, thanks Peter.

Cheers,

cliffa.
 
cliffa said:
Hi NortonMKIIA850, I recently found out that you only live once. That was quite an eye opener, so I thought what the heck !!

I have a belt drive, but at the moment not sure from which manufacturer. The Alton instructions do give you the dimensions of the spacer requirements for the RGM and Norvil kits, so if it's one of those I should be ok as I have a small Emco hobby lathe which should be able to handle that . If it's not one of those kits Paul Harmon (A.K.A. Mr. Alton) has asked me to provide the details required to make it fit, so as the thread title suggests this is really into the unknown.


Cheers,

cliffa.
Click to expand...
Interesting! I didn't want to assume you had a belt, even though the outrigger pretty much demands it – I'll be fascinated to hear how you get on!
 
15/16 on the rotor nut 13/16 on the main shaft nut 3/4 on dyno dave push rod seal nut. DO NOT use the stock locking washer and tab instead comstock sells a bellville washer and use some lock tight at 40 lbs torque.
 
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