Introduction/Retro-Custom Project

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I bought my first Norton in 1971. It was registered as a 1971 but was what we now know as the 1970 model. It was a yellow Roadster with the ring around the headlight. What was that there for anyway? I loved that motorcycle and used it to commute to work about 20 miles each way in LA traffic. I spent a lot of time working on it as it was often broken or ailing. It turned me into a pedestrian too many times to be considered reliable transportation and after a year & a half or so I reluctantly sold it to get the down payment on a Land Rover Series IIA. It broke my heart but I couldn't afford a toy back then.

Twenty Nortonless years followed and the yearning for another one finally became too much and I started looking for another 1970 Norton. I met a BSA guy who had a 1972 bitsa for sale. It was (I was told) a Combat that had had the special head swapped out for a standard one. It had a Roadster tank but the little headlight like the HiRider has and someone had bodged on a 1970 seat which really didn't fit too well. The bike ran but needed work. The price was in the ball park and if it had really been solid internally it should have made a great ridable fixer-upper.

That didn't turn out to be the case. The more I worked on it the more I found wrong and in the end it turned out to be a complete rebuild right down to the frame. A small project turned out to be a major one as they often do and it seemed a good time to build it just like I personally thought it should have been done right from the start.

Back when I had the first Norton I rode with the old Classic & Antique Motorcycle Association (CAMA) and got to see many great vintage bikes. My tastes ran to the prewar and immediate postwar models and I thought it would be worth trying to make the Norton project look like it was earlier, say from 1952 rather than 1972. I have never heard of anyone doing a retro-custom before but that just seemed the right way to go with this one.

Many chrome items were stripped and painted and an older style headlight, controls other items were sourced. Color pencils on photocopies of a line drawing out of one of the Norton publications were used to establish the colors - dark red on dark blue. The wheel centers were painted dark red with gold lining to match the tank panels tank panels.

Mechanics were upgraded to the best Commando bits in the mid 1990s such as Superblend bearings, box head steady, relocated breather and lots of stainless bits to keep it easy to maintain.

The project got to the point where I could ride it around and work on sorting out the issues that cropped up. It has a speed wobble that begins about 55 or 60 mph and is so bad I was afraid it was going to chuck me off. The last ride was with the Antique Motorcycle Club and after a very nice day the bike felt a bit strange. In looking it over the rear brake drum had scorched paint and bits of the rubber cush drive seemed to be crumbling out. The chain looks to be rubbing on the chain guard, so there may be something wrong with the assembly.

The bike was put up on its work stand and there it has remained for the 10 or 12 years since that day. The press of other projects kept me away from it and soon it was more or less forgotten until now.

I need to rebuild a Model T motor and the workshop needs to be cleared to make space. The SR500 and the Norton are in the way. Seeing they are in the way, why not fix the Yamaha and finish that old Norton rather than just moving them into storage? That's where things are now. The SR500 needs the least work and is closer to the door so it will be first. The Norton needs work and some of it has to do with things I do not understand too well such as the speed wobble and rear hub and so these issues will need some research.

The pictures below are of the Norton when it was first run to check for leaks, noises and head gasket torque back in the late '90s. Other bits were still to be added. It started first kick and really ran sweetly with no oil leaks at all. Only overnight would it mark its spot.

Paul, soon to be Nortonless no longer
Fullerton, SoCal

Introduction/Retro-Custom Project


Introduction/Retro-Custom Project


Introduction/Retro-Custom Project


Introduction/Retro-Custom Project


Introduction/Retro-Custom Project
 
Welcome to the forum hudson29, and a nice lookin' bike too !!! I've had a eight Nortons since 1982, and a couple suffered from the dreaded "speed wobble" you speak of. It can be time consuming to find the problem, but here is what I would check. 1. Are tires true, mounted correctly, and balanced ? 2. Are the tires "in line" with eachother, not "cocked" one way or another ? This kind've checks the frame too, but only as accurately as your eyes. You have to do all the measurements to be sure. 3. Replace shocks with new ones. (I use Hagons) You can test; try riding with a passanger on the back, and see if you still have the speed wobble. I didn't when I did this. When I then replaced the shocks on that Norton, with new Hagons, the speed wobble went away, and stayed away even when solo. 4. Replace isolastics with new ones, I recommend the adjustable type. 5. DON'T use Dunlop TT100s, period; I would recommend new Avon AM26s ... it's amazing how great these tires are for a Norton. That's all I can think of right now, not necessarily in the order I would check. Doing all of these, or a combination ... depending on what is causing your speed wobble, should be a good start at fixing the problem. The two Nortons I had, that had the speed wobble problems, were fixed by a combination or all of the above. Good luck !!!
 
Ugh, everything Nurtri listed and then some. I like the bit long in tooth look.

I'd be very pensive of the rear hub, dummy axle and bearing. Dragging rear brake not a good omen either. Main danger is jerk-tugging on dumb axle breaks it sooner.

Swing arm spindle slack can also aggravate, any and all the above. Gear box wear of sleeve gear bushes and allow clutch wobble so chain flap tugs on the swing arm which tugs on the front isolastic sideways which wiggles forks that work back to shake the tail. Spindle collars are the way to go there.

Getting the rear to squat more may also tame some wobbles.

Commandos should have no top speed handling limits, just the tire ratings.

Recent report is Greg Fault's fork kit solving a straight line wobble by slightly raising the front.

I too got sucked into Norton time vortex being told how lawn mower simple they are to work on... and on...and on... bet there's a motto along these lines.


Steven 'hobot' Shiver
N.W. Arkansas Ozarks.
 
Welcome Hudson

Your bike is real nice looking and has a unique style.

>>In looking it over the rear brake drum had scorched paint and bits of the rubber cush drive seemed to be crumbling out. The chain looks to be rubbing on the chain guard, so there may be something wrong with the assembly.<<

I had a similar problem. I'd had the rear bearings repacked and after maybe twenty miles I started to have the chain rubbing the chain guard!
What happened was the circlip that holds the bearing in the brake drum had not been seated properly. The sharp edge facing outward. This allowed the bearing to migrate to the right and the drum to move to the left causing the chain rub. Here is a picture of what that looked like.
Disassemble, clean,grease and reassemble and double check the seating of the circlip.

http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad82 ... CF9385.jpg

Good luck.
Bob
 
Hudson,
Welcome, nice bike.

I really think the Norton can be made to be reliable and wobble free. Fortunately I have never experienced any of the wobbles, but I know many have. When I first had my bike, I just thrashed it, not to excess, but I didn't have money to throw at it, so I would repair what I could to keep it going, and I have to say it never let me down (unlike a BSA I had much earlier). But I didn't have to rely on it to commute. Mine was in storage for 30 years and a rust bucket when I got back to it. Everything renewed now and waiting for warm weather to give it the test drives. I managed 10 miles on it last fall before the cold moved in.

Mine has the halo. Why? I reckon it was just their way to make it look different than those dog ear mounts. I kind of like it.

Anyhow, if you can afford to make improvements and get things tight, I really think you should be good to go. Keep at it. Commando75 in Salinas rebuilt his and seems to have a nice reliable runner. Check out some of his threads/trips.

Dave
69S
 
Speed Wobble Issues

Thanks so much for the words on the speed wobble issue. That first great Norton was always steady as a string. It had the ribbed Avon Speedmaster GP tire in the front and the zigzag treat Speedmaster in the back. I loved those tires and but for the short life, liked them better than to two other tires I installed while I owned the bike. That memory lead me to choose the same rubber for the current project. I have since learned that Norton changed the trail to accommodate using a rear tire on the front. I put the old small ribbed tire on the front as it was on the earlier models. Could this have made a difference?

Putting new Dunlop 491s on the SR500 transformed that motorbike and made it much more pleasant to ride. This has made me think I might have made a bad choice by going back to my fondly remembered Avon GP tires on the Commando. More modern rubber might improve things in all sorts of ways . . .

I will certainly check the rigging on the front & rear wheels along with tightness of the triple clamps and steering bearings. The latter were upgraded to the tapered variety and maybe I got something loose someplace.

The original shocks seemed to work fine so I just painted them up and reused them. Maybe the Hagons would help with more than the speed wobble.

Paul
 
Rear Hub Issues

I'm very suspicious of the rear hub. Everything was gone through with new bearings and a stainless spacer & axle. The assembly went together very tight left to right and I remember thinking that it just didn't feel right. Not knowing anything specific, I just figured that this was part of the upgrade. I did center the brake shoes and they were adjusted perfectly so there was no drag but operated easily. This will have to come apart and be inspected to see if the circlip is in place and what caused the heat in the area.

Paul
 
Hi again Hudson, Glenn here your Fullerton neighbor. When I first got this 850 it had a nasty speed wobble if I took my hands off the bars at any speed, worse going slow. I put new modern Avon's on and no more wobble. I did rebuild both hubs and have new Wheels built with Excel rims by Buchanans so I guess I can't really say the tires did the trick but I think so. Anyway as I said in your PM I live about 3 miles from you & would be happy to help, let's start on your rear hub as I did mine a few months ago & I can most likely still remember how I did it. Wilson at American Indian Specialists on Ash st, will let us use his press to do the bearings. Your bike is way to nice to be hiding in non motion. I will call you so maybe we can work on it this week. ( supposed to rain so if I can't ride, why not work?) good to have another local Nortonite. Glenn.
 
Thanks Glenn, please do call. I have several things going this weekend already in the vintage music line but will see if we can find some time to get this long neglected Commando project back on track. The rear hub is the major issue and it will need fresh paint on the backing plate to make it nice again once any issues are resolved. Do you have a good local powder coater? I used to do this at OC Chrome but that was not the best experience.

Paul, soon to be a Nortonian again!
 
Ok Paul, I'll call this afternoon. So your into our local " vintage" music scean? We must have many mutual friends. I play guitar and used to buy & sell vintage guitars & related equipment. Grew up down the sstreet from Leo Fender and the factory when it was off Raymond Ave. I don't play much any more cuz a neck injury left my right thumb and first two fingers without any feeling so I can't hold a pick or tell when I'm touching the strings. Anyway. This is off topic for Commando's so I'll call you on the phone later. Glenn.
 
The first pictures above showed the bike as it was just nearing completion 10 or 12 years ago. Here it is now surrounded by the debris of many other projects:

Introduction/Retro-Custom Project


Introduction/Retro-Custom Project


Introduction/Retro-Custom Project


This later shows the cooked paint on the rear brake backing plate.

Paul
 
DogT said:
Mine has the halo. Why? I reckon it was just their way to make it look different than those dog ear mounts. I kind of like it.

I like it too. I heard someone speculate once that it was there on the SS model to protect the headlight from damage in the event the bike fell over off road. That would have made it a holdover for the Roadster.

What I like about it is that it gives the headlight more visual mass. I think all of these bikes from this time could use a bigger headlight anyway.

Paul
 
Paul,
Not to be picky, but don't confuse the SS and the S. The SS came in around March of 71 and had the pipes up each side of the bike, you can see the whole thing in the 71 'Wild Bunch' brochure. Here's a picture of the SS front end, you can see it's a whole different bird.

Introduction/Retro-Custom Project


Dave
69S
 
Yes, quite right. I had forgotten about this later model. Did ALL early Roadsters have the headlight ring? I can't recall seeing any that didn't but Nortons of the 1969/1970 period were pretty thin on the ground and I may have missed some the exceptions.

Paul
 
I am pretty sure only the S and Roadster in 69-70 had the halo mount. The Fastback (original Commando) and the R had the dog ear mounts during those years. In 71 the halo disappeared. I'm pretty sure that's right.

Dave
69S
 
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