Interesting billet rods - USA made

Amazes me that they are for sale. Would have thought they were all thrown in the bin years ago as a precaution against being sued.

Do you have any actual evidence of these rods failing in use?

Tim Green has a good reputation IMHO. I'm not sure about the price and are Carrillo & Jim Schmidt's rods not "billet"?

Some billet rod bolts don't clear the crankcases without some relieving work. You would be a bit pi---ed off if you spent that much dosh and then had to mill out two tracks in your crankcases.

Read all about it on their website http://www.rrconnectingrods.com Must be good, they're American

SteveBorland said:

Do you have any actual evidence of these rods failing in use?

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Gidday All.
very interesting indeed.
Apples must be compared with apples.

The AN product has indeed proved by usage. They are heat treated .

These E-Bay rods claim 90,000 lbs tensile strength. There appears to be a bit of marketing hype in this advertisement.

At 2000lbs to the ton,(short ton) thats roughly 45 ton tensile. at 2240 lbs to the ton, it is even less. My humble opinion is 50 ton yield would be the absolute minimum for this.

A good forging and a billet, made of the same material , and the same heat treatment, should have the same tensile strength.

The big advantage of the forging is the far superior fatigue and strain resistance, probably related to the forgings grain flow.

At a change of cross section of a forging and a billet of the same material, the stress concentrations at this point, would be lesser in the forging. this is because the grain flow of the forging would have lesser internal stress concentrations than the abrupt changes in grain flow neccesary in a billet. grain is very relevant regarding stress concentrations.

So a forging would take the same load with less strain.
my opinion only.
Engineers would explain this far better than me.
This is just an attempt at an explanation

Also for those Ebay rods, no mention is whether the tensile strength quoted is Ultimate or Yield. this can matter very much.

Mr Comstock would be a good authority on this issue. or engineers with experience in these matters.
Jim, any idea of what a good tensile figure for both street and racing rods please?. Yield would probably be better than Ultimate.

Again, designs proven by field testing or usage, are the only choice. This is how the brand names get a good reputation, through successful usage. there are many offerings of this quality.

in summary, a lot more info would be needed to make an informed decision as to whether the Ebay offerings are SAFE or not

Also how does the price of these compare to proven brands?.

When Phil Irving says a con rod can be fabricated by welding, only the foolish would disagree.
best wishes bradley

JS and Carrillo rods are billet -billet steel.

I have used R&R rods. With enough whittling and case relieving you can get them to fit. I will not use them again in a Norton. Jim

B.Rad said:

SteveBorland said:

Do you have any actual evidence of these rods failing in use?

Click to expand...

Gidday All.
very interesting indeed.
Apples must be compared with apples.

The AN product has indeed proved by usage. They are heat treated .

These E-Bay rods claim 90,000 lbs tensile strength. There appears to be a bit of marketing hype in this advertisement.

At 2000lbs to the ton,(short ton) thats roughly 45 ton tensile. at 2240 lbs to the ton, it is even less. My humble opinion is 50 ton yield would be the absolute minimum for this.
etc

Click to expand...

Phil Irving refers to 80 ton steel* in regard to conrods ? - and that was quite a few decades back now.
ARP fasteners use a steel quoted as (considerably ?) more than this again.

45 tons sounds decidely like the low end of town.
But the proof is in the pudding...

*Steel rods use thinner sections, obviously....

Rohan said:

B.Rad said:

SteveBorland said:

Do you have any actual evidence of these rods failing in use?

Click to expand...

Gidday All.
very interesting indeed.
Apples must be compared with apples.

The AN product has indeed proved by usage. They are heat treated .

These E-Bay rods claim 90,000 lbs tensile strength. There appears to be a bit of marketing hype in this advertisement.

At 2000lbs to the ton,(short ton) thats roughly 45 ton tensile. at 2240 lbs to the ton, it is even less. My humble opinion is 50 ton yield would be the absolute minimum for this.
etc

Click to expand...

Phil Irving refers to 80 ton steel in regard to conrods ? - and that was quite a few decades back now.

ARP fasteners use a steel quoted as (considerably ?) more than this again.

45 tons sounds decidely like the low end of town.
But the proof is in the pudding...

Click to expand...

Gidday Rohan

I think Phil refers to a obselete steel grade called VIBRAC. this indeed had a tensile strength of 80 ton. Most likely a manganese type of steel. really dont know the composition of Vibrac. I will look it up.

And yes, 45 ton does seem low for a conrod.

I am of the opinion these ARP steels are special propriatory grades, because they have ductility with hardness. when steel gets to 95+ ton tensile, brittleness becomes a problem.

This I think Vibrac was an upgrade for Lightning engines. my knowledge level of Vincents is that they were designed buy an Aussie.best wishes bradley

gidday All.
Just a quick one regarding Vibrac. Please go here if interested.

ENGLAND DEVELOPS NEW 'VIBRAC' STEEL; Manchester Mills Discover Effective Way to Avoid Tempering Brittle.EXCELS NICKEL CHROME May Be Cooled In Air or Furnace-- Only a Specialty, LocalExperts Think.
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.[ DISPLAYING ABSTRACT ]

The manufacture of a new kind of steel known as "vibrac," the discovery of H.H. Ashdown and others of Armstrong, Whitworth Co. of Manchester, England, is told in advices received from that country. This new steel is asserted to have the valuable property of never tempering brittle and of being absolutely reliable and consistent in its behavior under any normal treatment.

introduced 1922. modern equivalent 4340. Nickel chrome moly. revolutionary then though
All the best bradley

B.Rad said:

The big advantage of the forging is the far superior fatigue and strain resistance, probably related to the forgings grain flow.

Click to expand...

Fatigue resistance (aka durability), yes, strain resistance, no. Strain is a function of Young's Modulus of the material.

B.Rad said:

So a forging would take the same load with less strain.
my opinion only.

Click to expand...

As in my comment above, the strain is a function of stress and the Young's modulus of the material. Really no discernible difference in Young's modulus for all alloys and treatments of steel. For steel, steel has a modulus of 30,000,000 psi.

I very much Enjoy your posts B.Rad. Well done.

Actually, all Carrillo steel rods, whether you choose H-beam or I-beam, are made from forgings. They use a proprietary maraging vacuum arc re-melt (web site says chrome, nickel, moly, vanadium alloy) with 195,000 psi UTS and 182,000 psi yield strength. They claim their alloy also has low notch -sensitivity and maintains good ductility. They really are about as good as it gets, but not cheap.

More info here

http://www.cp-carrillo.com/Tech/RodTech ... fault.aspx

They will also make titanium rods to special order, but then you're getting into really pricey stuff.

Ken

lcrken said:

with 195,000 psi UTS

Click to expand...

The rods the subject of this thread mention the rod bolts are ARP, and mention that 195,000
Thats 87 tons, not short tons either...

lcrken said:

Actually, all Carrillo steel rods, whether you choose H-beam or I-beam, are made from forgings. They use a proprietary maraging vacuum arc re-melt (web site says chrome, nickel, moly, vanadium alloy) with 195,000 psi UTS and 182,000 psi yield strength. They claim their alloy also has low notch -sensitivity and maintains good ductility. They really are about as good as it gets, but not cheap.

More info here

http://www.cp-carrillo.com/Tech/RodTech ... fault.aspx

They will also make titanium rods to special order, but then you're getting into really pricey stuff.

Ken

Click to expand...

Yeah, your right, I probably knew that once.
Since they are machined all over they look as though they were billet pieces. Jim

PS. There Ti Norton rods are only $1200.00 each....

Oh, only $1200 each. And here I thought they'd be expensive.

Ken

lcrken said:

Oh, only $1200 each. And here I thought they'd be expensive.

Ken

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Well at least I bet they would be here. I'm still waiting for my Swanson rods to materialize...Jim

Did I ever tell you the story about the time I hired an ex-Boeing titanium specialist designer to design and supervise the manufacture of a small batch of titanium Norton rods for me? He went bankrupt and took my $8000 deposit with him. I didn't even end up with drawings.

Ken

lcrken said:

Did I ever tell you the story about the time I hired an ex-Boeing titanium specialist designer to design and supervise the manufacture of a small batch of titanium Norton rods for me? He went bankrupt and took my $8000 deposit with him. I didn't even end up with drawings.

Ken

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That would smart.

Swanson's has my money too -but not 8000 bucks.
I talked to Mr. Swanson again last week. I think he will eventually come through with some rods. Just a year+ late. Jim