Imperial size spanners

ando said:

My first spanner set was Whitworth/BSF /CEI and the appealing thing about it is that there are so few spanners that are needed.

However recently I have run into a problem. The last lot of CEI thread nuts that I purchased here in Australia have metric heads. After complaining to the supplier I was advised that the nuts were made from metric bar stock because it is now too difficult to obtain the imperial bar stock. So the future may be more complicated.

ando

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Well that's certainly annoying. And will be confusing.

texasSlick said:

@ashman

How does the Jim Beam bottle factor into your collection of tools?
And where is the fridge I've heard so much about?

Slick

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The bar fridge is at the end of the work bench in the first pic you can just see bit of the bench vice and the bar fridge is beside that and under the bar fridge is my air compressor and floor drill beside the end of the bench.
In this pic is the old way I had the work bench and old tool hangers but you can see the workshop beer fridge since this pic was taken the milling machine is gone it just took up to much room for the little use it had, I didn't like the milling machine it didn't have auto feed as well the 2013 Thruxton has also been sold.
My shed is always changing, I built it 33 years ago same with the L shape work bench and mezzanine floor that is in front of the newer Thruxton it take up 1/4 of the shed great for top storage and have the large slot car track under the mezzanine floor, the work bench and mezzanine floor cost me nothing to build just my own time all the steel and timber was borrowed from my old job .
The money from the milling machine paid for the slot car track (100 piece track).

Ashley

Wish I could drop in, enjoy a few cool ones, and look around!

Slick

ashman said:

The bar fridge is at the end of the work bench in the first pic you can just see bit of the bench vice and the bar fridge is beside that and under the bar fridge is my air compressor and floor drill beside the end of the bench.
In this pic is the old way I had the work bench and old tool hangers but you can see the workshop beer fridge since this pic was taken the milling machine is gone it just took up to much room for the little use it had, I didn't like the milling machine it didn't have auto feed as well the 2013 Thruxton has also been sold.
My shed is always changing, I built it 33 years ago same with the L shape work bench and mezzanine floor that is in front of the newer Thruxton it take up 1/4 of the shed great for top storage and have the large slot car track under the mezzanine floor, the work bench and mezzanine floor cost me nothing to build just my own time all the steel and timber was borrowed from my old job .
The money from the milling machine paid for the slot car track (100 piece track).

Ashley


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It's a good size shed to , I put a car hoist in mine about 2 ½ years ago , and I should have done it 12 years ago , I made a mezzanine floor , great for parts , I scored two big RHS poles 180mm 10mm wall with a good size foot plate , I will make a large davit , I have all the rest for the frame and pivots , and I treated myself to a single phase elephant brand electric winch

texasSlick said:

Wish I could drop in, enjoy a few cool ones, and look around!

Slick

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Slick if you ever get over to Aussie land you be welcome as all travel friends are, always some where to crash after a few cold ones.

Ashley

Shelby-Right said:

It's a good size shed to , I put a car hoist in mine about 2 ½ years ago , and I should have done it 12 years ago , I made a mezzanine floor , great for parts , I scored two big RHS poles 180mm 10mm wall with a good size foot plate , I will make a large davit , I have all the rest for the frame and pivots , and I treated myself to a single phase elephant brand electric winch

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I am lucky no cars can get up my back yard so the shed/workshop up the back is all bikes, slot car track and snooker table under the outside awning that is built in front of the shed, the shed is 7.5m x 6.5m and the front awning is 7.5m x 4m the outside awning is where I work on my bikes in summer when the shed gets a bit hot inside, good that the lift table has wheels, not far from Moreton Bay so get great sea breezes in the afternoons.
My shed is all about bikes, entertainment and fun with good friends and a good fire pit in front of the shed for outdoor cooking.

Sorry for going off course from imperial spanners but the shed is metric.

Take a photo of each side of the bike and print the biggest copy you can. Draw arrows to each fastener that you regularly have to undo and mark the size spanner/socket needed on the print, Mark your shadow board / socket rail with easily read sizes. Fit prints on wall . You will never pick up the wrong spanner/socket again.

norton bob said:

Take a photo of each side of the bike and print the biggest copy you can. Draw arrows to each fastener that you regularly have to undo and mark the size spanner/socket needed on the print, Mark your shadow board / socket rail with easily read sizes. Fit prints on wall . You will never pick up the wrong spanner/socket again.

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I know every spanner and tool hanging on my tool board and know which one to grab every time, my problem is rehanging them when finished and sit on top of the bench or lift table when finished using them till I get the sh.ts and put them in their right places, my shed is not always tidy one of my bad habits lol, but always try my best.

norton bob said:

Take a photo of each side of the bike and print the biggest copy you can. Draw arrows to each fastener that you regularly have to undo and mark the size spanner/socket needed on the print, Mark your shadow board / socket rail with easily read sizes. Fit prints on wall . You will never pick up the wrong spanner/socket again.

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If I take the photos, will you fill in the sizes for me? I’ll do the shadow tracing on the pegboard. Lol!

I went through my whitworth spanners to see if I could recomend a brand for the OP.

From the right. These are all 1/4 WW examples. That's not rust on them. Just the remains of yellow paint I used to try and keep hold of them when my tools were out at race meeting. It's not your friends who take them. Just random people who ask to "borrow" a spanner for 10 mins and "forget" to bring them back.

The first two are ACESA brand. Spanish.

The first one was purchased more than 20 years ago and has been modified to access magneto bolts on older Nortons Velos etc. It is a very nice spanner with good shape and feel

The second one is a modern ACESA spanner. Only a year old and easy to find online. It's not as nice, heavier in the shank and the ring has a slight bevel. It would be my third choice of what's available today.

The third is from T&E tools which seems to be an Australian company except this came in a set labeled T&E Tools, Chicago USA. This would be my second choice of what I have seen available today.

Fourth is Britool. This is a nice spanner. Good shape to get into tight spaces. This would be my recommendation of the spanners I have. Unfortunately I only have one of them. I think you can still get them.

The far left two are 3/16. The first one of the pair is extremely nice and my favourite. But it is Sidchrome. Which was made in Australia and now Taiwan. But they do not list WW spanners anymore. This spanner is probably 30 years old I think.

The one on the left is another modern T&E Tools spanner and I included it in the photo to show how much broader it is especially at the open end compared to the sidchrome.

So if I could get it I'd go for Sidchrome.

Britool would be next and I think that's available.

However searching on line I found WW Kingdick spanners. I havnt personally used them but from what I saw and read they would be my top choice.

Last thing. You might be tempted to buy just 2 or 3 spanners. But always check the sets because they can sometimes include 6 or 7 spanners for almost the same price as three bought separately.

Your question about UK source of W spanners. Seen them from lot of vendors. A bit closer to you are https://verktygsboden.se/hand-elver...ktyg/hylssatser/hylssats-whitworth-38-7-delar in Sweden. Used them for a couple of years without problem. They also sell a set of sockets, don't know of their quality.
The marking on W spanners can be a bit confusing. E.g. a spanner marked W1/4 BSF 5/16 can be used on a 1/4 coarse BSW and fine threaded screws 5/16 BSF and 5/16 BSC (cycle thread).
So contrary to AF where a 1/4 bolt has a 7/16 spanner both for coarse UNC and fine UNF, in the W system head size differs between fine and coarse threads.

When I cleaned out my dads garage I was delighted to find these whitworth spanner sets , they are like brand new , I never knew he had them , open end spanners, Bedford England and the smaller ring spanners ar Matador Germany.

I hate working on my bike. No spanner ever fits any nut. So I have to get a real fit of enthusiasm before I do anything to it. The system is designed to be a deterrent. If you don't work on your bike, you cannot tune it to a stand-still.

I learned a long time ago is always have the right tools for your bikes, make life a lot easier and nothing worst than tapping the wrong socket or ring spanner on a nut or bolt to get it off then having to get it out of the socket or ring spanner after its off or having rounded nuts and bolt heads using the wrong tools, don't have any problems with a full set of WW spanners, rings spanners and sockets for the Norton everyone fits perfectly.

Yes. I don't think it should be too bad. If necessary paint a blob of different colour to distinguish metric, AF and WW tools.

No need for any metric tools if your working on a Norton Commando. Unless someone has been an animal.

There are not that many WW (BSF) fastenings on a Commando. Mostly on the engine and the nuts that hold the inner cover on the gearbox. These need a slim Koken socket.

johnm said:

Yes. I don't think it should be too bad. If necessary paint a blob of different colour to distinguish metric, AF and WW tools.

No need for any metric tools if your working on a Norton Commando. Unless someone has been an animal.

There are not that many WW (BSF) fastenings on a Commando. Mostly on the engine and the nuts that hold the inner cover on the gearbox. These need a slim Koken socket.

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Regarding the inner gearbox cover, as these don't have a high torque requirement I use (purists look away now!) a metric 1/4" drive socket from an 'el cheapo' screwdriver/socket set bought for household chores...

Last vestiges of credibility now gone :-(

Here is some incentive to buy a set of imperial spanners, at least for you who have to work on American cars and trucks: I discovered that when the US auto industry finally converted to metric, they did not adopt either the Euro or Japanese conventions on bolt head sizes. Rather than odd number mm they used even sizes. So, for example, rather than 17mm on which an 11/16" spanner can be used they use 18 on which it cannot be used, rather than 19mm they used 20.

Now everyone who has worked on European or Japanese cars or bikes has a set of odd-numbered spanners in their kit. Of course the tool vendors know this and I suspect seeing a sales opportunity, influenced the US auto industry to adopt bolt head sizes they did. In my years sitting in SAE meetings and presentations in Detroit I've seen many such games played, particularly regarding service equipment and tools. It really was pay to play.

Having been in the trade a good long while I'd acquired three set of spanners: imperial, metric and American inch sizes. I was not about to go buy a set of even-size metric spanners. NO! I soon discovered that the WW sizes would fit the even numbered metric bolts. Hah! won that hand.

EstuaryBoy said:

Regarding the inner gearbox cover, as these don't have a high torque requirement I use (purists look away now!) a metric 1/4" drive socket from an 'el cheapo' screwdriver/socket set bought for household chores...

Last vestiges of credibility now gone :-(

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My WW socket fits those inner cover nuts easy and a perfect fit, before the WW socket I used a grind down socket in AF size with a bit of a tap on, a lot better with the right socket in WW, I am no longer a butcher with nuts and bolts.

All my WW sockets come from a 1/2" drive 'monster' set purchased via the Exchange And Mart back in the days when they advertised full 'baked on to stay on' car resprays on the cover of the Motoring Supplement for £99 !!

Thomasa said:

Here is some incentive to buy a set of imperial spanners, at least for you who have to work on American cars and trucks: I discovered that when the US auto industry finally converted to metric, they did not adopt either the Euro or Japanese conventions on bolt head sizes. Rather than odd number mm they used even sizes. So, for example, rather than 17mm on which an 11/16" spanner can be used they use 18 on which it cannot be used, rather than 19mm they used 20.

Now everyone who has worked on European or Japanese cars or bikes has a set of odd-numbered spanners in their kit. Of course the tool vendors know this and I suspect seeing a sales opportunity, influenced the US auto industry to adopt bolt head sizes they did. In my years sitting in SAE meetings and presentations in Detroit I've seen many such games played, particularly regarding service equipment and tools. It really was pay to play.

Having been in the trade a good long while I'd acquired three set of spanners: imperial, metric and American inch sizes. I was not about to go buy a set of even-size metric spanners. NO! I soon discovered that the WW sizes would fit the even numbered metric bolts. Hah! won that hand.

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I don't know when usa started metric, but my 86 F150 is a fine mix of metric and imperial . The old AOD trans even had the word Metric pressed into the sump , it's gone now Tremec 5 speed .