Ignition & Fusebox

rbt11548 · Dec 23, 2008

I noticed there have been a few threads regarding electronic ignition for the Commando with various opinions expressed, has anyone got experience of most or all of them ? I have a Boyer on mine at present it was fitted when I got it and to be honest it looks fairly battered about, but running; I know you can't judge electronic Black boxes by appearance only, but looking at the state of the connections when I got it. It got me wondering about the rest, so just in case it is on it's way out I am thinking of replacing it and am looking at the Pazon, the Tri-Spark Classic Twin, as well as the Boyer, Mk3 or micro system,(they are bringing out a Mk4). I know there is a bit of a price difference between the lot, but I have budgeted for it, I just want to put in what would be the best for the bike, so anyone who has experience with them I would be grateful for any feedback.
I am also thinking of doing away with the clump of connectors that reside beside the top frame tube and fitting one long harness run, putting one end with connectors in the lamp shell if possible, and the other ends in the battery box area, I have a Boyer power box unit with warning light and already have done away with the Zeners, capacitor , rectifier and assimilator. Would putting a small fusebox in the battery area while I'm working on the wiring be an advantage or would it be a bit of overkill?
Thanks
Robert

grandpaul · Dec 23, 2008

All of your ideas sound good to me.

I always hand-wire my own bikes.

rbt11548 · Dec 23, 2008

grandpaul said:
All of your ideas sound good to me.

I always hand-wire my own bikes.

Hi Grandpaul, Where did you put your connectors? & did you put fusebox in? if so how many fuses ? I was thinking 3, lighting, ignition & horn /brake light , probably not right, but I have not actually sat down with pen & paper yet.
Cheers
Robert

grandpaul · Dec 23, 2008

I like the connectors in a cluster near the electrical area under the seat, and in the headlight bucket.

1 fuse for ignition, 1 for head & tail lights, 1 for everything else.

norbsa48503 · Dec 23, 2008

You might consider this:
http://accessnorton.com/norton_commando3077.html

Dr_Hiller · Dec 23, 2008

I did mine a like GP. Fourth fuse goes to the power take-off/battery tender socket.

I've got the headlights and ignition on relays as well. Next week I'm going to redo it though as I used too much 12ga wire where 14 and 16 would handle the amperage quite nicely.

I'm also sold on these bullet-terminals that've got their own solder and heatshrink. I think they're made by Krimpa-Seal.

grandpaul · Dec 23, 2008

Yeah, I like Greg's relays.

rbt11548 · Dec 23, 2008

norbsa48503 said:
You might consider this:
http://accessnorton.com/norton_commando3077.html

That looks good! What ignition system are you using with those coils? I'm not too sure how to go about wiring relays in, are there diagrams for them and fuses on the net? I was going to put them in the battery box area, I have a Mk3 but with an older style air filter so there is plenty of room.
I see you have a '67 Lightning . I also have a '65 Lightning Clubman
Thanks again Much appreciated
Robert

Hortons Norton · Dec 23, 2008

Hey Paul, What type and brand of wire do you use? I am thinking of doing my own also. I have a new stock harness but it seems as if there will be a lot of wires that won't be used, What would you suggest? Do you or anyone you know have drawings showing types of wire and placement of connectors? Thanks for any input as this is still a ways off but this thread has me thinking ahead, Thanks, Chuck. :?: :?: :?:

norbsa48503 · Dec 23, 2008

Robert, There are a number of different ones shown in the pictures on that thread. Pic one is a 750 with a Boyer and a Dayna coil . Pic 2 is the battery end of the same bike. Pic 3 is head light end same bike. Pic 4 is an 850 with a Boyer and an Accell coil. Pic 5 is a mark 3 with a high end Pazon box and coil fitted up. Last pic is the BSA.

rbt11548 · Dec 23, 2008

norbsa48503 said:
Robert, There are a number of different ones shown in the pictures on that thread. Pic one is a 750 with a Boyer and a Dayna coil . Pic 2 is the battery end of the same bike. Pic 3 is head light end same bike. Pic 4 is an 850 with a Boyer and an Accell coil. Pic 5 is a mark 3 with a high end Pazon box and coil fitted up. Last pic is the BSA.

I notice you used a Pazon which is one I am considering ftting, (see original post), would it be the best to use? as it seems to get good press. Better starting with lower voltage than the Boyer and it is a bit cheaper than the Tri-Spark.
On my A65 I fitted the Boyer ignition box near the battery & power box above the coils.

Ron L · Dec 23, 2008

Robert,
I have relays operating the headlight (requires 2), the horn, and the ignition. I have used both the cube Bosch-type and the little Panasonics like in Gregg's kit. The Panasonics are a little easier to fit under the tank, so Gregg's kit is a no brainer if you want to fit them there. If you are trying to fit them in the headlight bucket, they don't save much room if you use the socket, but if you eliminate the socket they are easier to squeeze in there.

I have a 4 fuse panel that feeds (1) the headlight, (2) ignition, (3) horn, and (4)everything else. Each relay is individually fused on the load side and on the switching side is fused thru the 4th fuse. I have converted to blade type fuses which are much easier to find than the glass ones. The Centech AP-1 is a costly, but great little 5-fuse panel. The cheaper plastic ones work also.

I build my own harnesses using wire from British Wiring and maintain the same color codes as on the Norton wiring diagram. This makes trouble shooting much easier. I have just started using Posi-locks to replace bullet connectors, and these seem to just make sense.

norbsa48503 · Dec 23, 2008

The Pazon fitted here is the type that uses the low dwell coil it is not the cheaper one commonly used. They all work and the new Boyer is out on the shelves at about 150.00 also a good unit. But the Tri-spark is something special on the Norton. It's ability to retard back is something you can feel and the way it makes the bike run, well it has my vote. For a kick start bike that is ridden hard, so far it just seems the best.

rbt11548 · Dec 24, 2008

Ron L said:
I have a 4 fuse panel that feeds (1) the headlight, (2) ignition, (3) horn, and (4)everything else. Each relay is individually fused on the load side and on the switching side is fused thru the 4th fuse. I have converted to blade type fuses which are much easier to find than the glass ones. The Centech AP-1 is a costly, but great little 5-fuse panel. The cheaper plastic ones work also.

You have convinced me ... put in a fuse panel!!!!, I was going to try and locate the relays and fusebox in the battery area where I have plenty of space and run the wiring up to the lamp. Now I have got to draw it out, is there any info on this anywhere on the 'net?
As for the ignition the Tri-Spark, although costlier by quite a bit, it seems to be getting very good press, that might be the way to go, do I want to spend that much, we'll see? As I said previously I budgeted for new bits and pieces for my bike , the difference between selling my Speed Triple and buying this one, however I have given the budget a good hiding already!
Robert

Ron L · Dec 24, 2008

Now I have got to draw it out, is there any info on this anywhere on the 'net?

I would start with the stock diagram from the factory manual. Essentially the relays will become the terminus for the switches rather than the power using device (horn, lights, etc.) The power using devices are fed from their specific relay which in turn is fed from their fuse at the panel and a ground wire.

You can mount the relays and fuse box in position and then lay out the wiring. Use strips of tape or wire ties initially to bundle wires. then when it is all the way you want it, wrap it in loom tape or sheathing or that split hard rib stuff to make a neat bundle.

Remember, minimize connections, expecially bullets, as these will corrode with time and exposure and reduce the precious current to the device.

As to the budget, Debby said it best, look at the purchase price as a down payment.

mwoo · Dec 24, 2008

Electronic Ignition

On my Mk2A I've had two types of Boyer followed by the first type of Tri-Spark (with black box) - I have now fitted the Tri-Spark Classic Twin - it is by far the best. Fitting is very easy and there is no black box - the whole system fits inside the points cover. The biggest advantage is that it has an "anti-kickback" feature which works brilliantly - first kick starting with no broken ankles !!!

HTH

grandpaul · Dec 24, 2008

I have taken new OEM harnesses, cut the wrapping, and eliminated all unnecessary wires, and installed convenient bullets for "segmenting" the entire loom.

I use 14 GA wire purchased from a local electrical supply in bulk. I used to be in the Mechanical construction trades and we used lots of electrical materials as well, so i just maintain accounts at all the suppliers like W.W.Grainger. By the way, grainger's also sells Agitene bio-d degreaser solvent parts wash in 5 gallon buckets.

rbt11548 · Dec 24, 2008

grandpaul said:
I have taken new OEM harnesses, cut the wrapping, and eliminated all unnecessary wires, and installed convenient bullets for "segmenting" the entire loom.

Thanks, once the holiday's over and the shops are open again, I'll start getting the stuff together. I'm actually quite looking forward to doing it! I rewired my Lightning Clubman when I fitted the electronic ig & powerbox as fitting them did away with loads of wires.
Found a few good bits on the net about fuseboxes and relays, was just trying to figure out the fuse sequence for the Commando with the lighting position on the ig switch, with perserverence i should get it!
Robert

rbt11548 · Dec 28, 2008

Hi, can anyone tell me if this diagram will work or not?, it is my first attempt to wire in fuses so there is a good chance that it will not! If I want to put relays in where would I put them and how many would I need?

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp19 ... tryout.jpg

On reading and looking at 4 terminal relay diagrams ,
terminal 85 is EARTH,
terminal 87 goes to ITEM to be switched on,(horn or whatever)
terminal 86 goes to the SWITCH of the item, which is fed when the
ignition is turned on.
terminal 30 goes to the battery negative terminal.
Have I got that correct?, and instead of running the wire to terminal 30 from the battery connection can I join it anywhere on the wire that goes from battery connection to the ignition switch provided it is passed the fuse? This would save a number of connections at the terminal of the battery.
As for the headlight, because of the head/pilot switch on the r/hand bar switch cluster and the hi/lo on the left , how many relays would I use for this?
All help would be much appreciated

L.A.B. · Dec 28, 2008

rbt11548 said:
can anyone tell me if this diagram will work or not?,

It should work as shown, however you would lose the "pilot only" and "parking lights" options. As the ignition switch "park" terminal is also used for the tail and instruments at the switch "Ignition & Lights" position.

rbt11548 said:
If I want to put relays in where would I put them and how many would I need?

One each for Headlamp/lights and horn, and one for the ignition circuit and starter push button circuit, possibly?

rbt11548 said:
On reading and looking at 4 terminal relay diagrams ,
terminal 85 is EARTH,
terminal 87 goes to ITEM to be switched on,(horn or whatever)
terminal 86 goes to the SWITCH of the item, which is fed when the
ignition is turned on.
terminal 30 goes to the battery negative terminal.
Have I got that correct?, and instead of running the wire to terminal 30 from the battery connection can I join it anywhere on the wire that goes from battery connection to the ignition switch provided it is passed the fuse? This would save a number of connections at the terminal of the battery.

Yes that all sounds OK.
I've never found standard relays to be polarity sensitive (the "diode protected" ones will be, I think) so the 85-86 (switch), and 30-87 (load) terminals can be connected either way, with regard to polarity.

rbt11548 said:
As for the headlight, because of the head/pilot switch on the r/hand bar switch cluster and the hi/lo on the left , how many relays would I use for this?

If you wired your ignition switch according to your diagram, there won't be any pilot function, so the MkIII light switch wouldn't do anything. [Edit] you wouldn't be able to select pilot only with it, so it could be left out of the headlamp circuit?

You could use a 5-blade "change over relay" (30/85/86/87/87a) for main/dip operation, in which case, only one wire from the handlebar Hi/Lo switch would be required. http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/V ... relays.php

Ignition & Fusebox

rbt11548

grandpaul

rbt11548

grandpaul

norbsa48503

Dr_Hiller

grandpaul

rbt11548

Hortons Norton

norbsa48503

rbt11548

Ron L

norbsa48503

rbt11548

Ron L

mwoo

grandpaul

rbt11548

rbt11548

L.A.B.

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