I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrades

I guess I 'm just getting old but, I mean, I've owned my 74' 850 Roadster since 1974 ( it was 6 months old when I bought it from Harry's Motors in Denver, with 4,500 miles on the clock). I've come to the realization that it is a constant source of repairs, adjustments, fettling, upgrading, for what? I mean, your standard Japanese bike of smaller cc's outperforms it in every way, at a cheaper cost, and reliably. As an example, there are endless posts here about various inlet port sizes flowing better than others (RH4 vs RH10 vs ad infinitum). And for what? An increase of 4 or 5 HP over a couple thousand rpm rev band? I mean, really, you can go out and buy a reliable '09 Yamaha VMax for $9K and get 200 HP at the crank. Sure it's heavier and classified as a "power cruiser," but you all know what I'm talking about. You pay what for a Fullauto head...$2,500.?? How many HP per US$100 does that get you? There are a lot of used bikes available for under $5k that can outperform the Commando in every way (except maybe in low end torque due to shorter stroke) and be many times more reliable. It's like we're all living in the past, a Baby Boomer thing. Am I crazy here? Am I missing something obvious? I can see maybe modifying for special classic MC race events where you're competing against other old classic bikes, but other than racing... I don't get it. How many here race their bike in classic bike events? Sorry to be a buzz kill but just being honest, and I guess I'm burned out after putting "my all" into the bike doing a restoration... twice!

Bill

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

Nortons are really neat curiousitys. Many here have other more high performance vehicles. I focus on reliability issues myself.

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

uhhhh....
would you be interested in selling that rh10 head? :evil:

Glen

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

Your right, I need to quit wasting all this time on an old Norton -and watch more TV. Jim :wink:

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

I'll take performance upgrades on my bike but not in my food thank-you. Besides it beats swapping oil leak stories all the time.?

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

I kind of agree here. It is of funny to hear about this and that modification and all the time and effort put into a Norton for maybe a couple of horsepower gain. Lots of engineering types too apparantly who have 'the answer'. I guess it is a hobby though, and some of us get into it more than others. To each his own. As for me, my MK3 is pretty much stock, except for a Boyer ignition and ss brake lines at the front. It's very reliable in it as designed condition. By the way, I also got my Norton new from Harry's in Denver. I believe it was $1998.00. Brought it to a friends house in FT Collins stuffed in the back of my Corvair van then unloaded it and rode it for the first time to my house on the west side of Horsetooth Reservoir. It was a lot punchier than my BSA.

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

Sorry, you guys just missed the boat. You had to have gotten your Norton before 1973 to understand.

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

Elitist, ^ ?

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

LOL!!! :wink:

Biscuit said:

my MK3 is pretty much stock, except for a Boyer ignition and ss brake lines

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Ah Ha!, so you have modded your bike. Are these the only 2 mods that are acceptable or are there some others that it would be OK to do? Just where is the tipping point anyway? :roll:

Larso1 said:

it is a constant source of repairs, adjustments, fettling, upgrading, for what?
Bill

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Confucius say "It is not getting to point "Z" from "A" but it is the journey itself that is the reward." Enjoy the build, don't hasten through it. Become ONE with your Norton.

OM

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

Biscuit said:

I kind of agree here. It is of funny to hear about this and that modification and all the time and effort put into a Norton for maybe a couple of horsepower gain. Lots of engineering types too apparantly who have 'the answer'. I guess it is a hobby though, and some of us get into it more than others. To each his own. As for me, my MK3 is pretty much stock, except for a Boyer ignition and ss brake lines at the front. It's very reliable in it as designed condition. By the way, I also got my Norton new from Harry's in Denver. I believe it was $1998.00. Brought it to a friends house in FT Collins stuffed in the back of my Corvair van then unloaded it and rode it for the first time to my house on the west side of Horsetooth Reservoir. It was a lot punchier than my BSA.

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Thanks Biscuit. I see you understand what I'm saying. No malice intended. But I have been an owner for quite some time (1974) so I think I have some say here. Interesting you bought your MK3 from Harry's Motors too. I think I must have been "taken" on the price as I remember it was around $2,200 used! I was there to get a different C/S sprocket installed soon after I bought it.. there was a new black and gold Ducati 900 Mike Hailwood replica on the showroom floor at the time for sale, with 1/2 fairing. So beautiful. Should have bought it on the spot!

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

Mr. Bill is talking good common sense by a thinking adult with very realistic evidence to back him so would be foolish to counter point his logic in public. I too feel similar and made effort to keep one of my Trixie factory bland and have a back up cheap handy SV650, with normal Asian levels of break down besides more routine animal or car take downs. Which implies to me that as Mr. Bill is still riding he's off his rocker to pay much heed to anyway. Do ya really want to risk life and limb on a mere road appliance, sheeze.

Sorry, you guys just missed the boat. You had to have gotten your Norton before 1973 to understand.

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Alas facts of life's biological urges dissolves common sense reasoning into childish mania of next threshold to cross for the pure kix before fate takes us anyway. Both my C'do and my buddy are pre 73 so don't pay me any heed either. There is a theory that gravity/acceleration/consciousness are of same nature or medium so what's that imply about those missing out on some extra G's now and again and again with endless improvements for even more in store.

I try to replay some ride events about half them so pleasant I stop but they aren't the one's that repeat so deep to keep me awake before sleep. Ok off to steal more shadows.

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

Larso1 said:

Am I missing something obvious?

Bill

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Perhaps that there is no motorcycle since the Norton Commando 750 or 850 that is anything like a Norton Commando 750 or 850.
That performance can also be improved drivability and reliability with no real HP gain (for the most part)
That in itself can make for a more enjoyable motorcycle that retains its original traits,those which were the original attraction.

There was no black and gold Mike Hailwood replica and that model was not released until the late 1970's,all that glitters is not gold either :lol:
They need to be looked after also (Beveldrive Ductai's) and you won't be adjusting the desmodromic valve gear after lunch with a wrench or two.
Maybe it was a valve spring 860 GT that could have the big end expire with low mileages also.

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

Early memorie's that inspired us are hard to get rid of, listen to 70's music or dirty harry movies, they re-kindle us to a time when we where YOUNG! Old bikes are just toys from our rosy past.

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

I see where you're coming from, but Commando Vs. Vmax is stretching things a little - comparing a Commando with a 750-4 or Z750 or GS750 would be more relevant, and to my mind at least would make for a livelier discussion

I had a Vmax, and everyone should have one at least once in their life, just to be able to pontificate with authority!
Did I like it?
No
DId it get lots of favourable comments?
Yes
Was it actually of any practical use?
Er...?
Compared to a H*rley?
Er....?
Was it dangerously under-braked for the power and (especially) weight?
By God, YES!

Seeking performance upgrades for road use is something I used to do on my T140, just to P*ss off Jap riders on Sundays on the ride to Rivington Barn, and was mostly very rewarding, but not really where I'm at as I approach middle-age, but I'm conscious that I'm still one of the younger contributors here.

I do see a very positive future for tuned Commandos on the track - hence all the info being shared here, and I always took it to be the racing fraternity was the target audience.

Both my Commandos have mods to the ignition and the brakes, but the motors are bog-standard and waaaaaay more punchy and driveable than the contemporary UJMs

Ultimately, I don't feel connected to a bike unless I've put hours into it - even if I've closed the garage door and walked away from it a few times :roll:

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

I think we are very fortunate to have the level of knowledge about these motorcycles that some of our members have.The availability and quality of the
products makes it all more of a choice as to which way you want to go with your bike.
Mike

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

My whole professional life has been about technical development in pursuit of performance in the defence manufacturing industry . My Seeley 850 Norton is an extension of that, and I love it dearly. I work in pursuit of the perfect package for racing, and I am almost there. It is a passion which keeps me alive. This forum fulfills a need when I compare my opinions with others of greater or lesser experience. I cannot think of another subject which is available to the common man which presents the opportunities that a silly old Norton commando based bike offers. You are correct , I could buy a competitive racing bike for less than half the selling price of my bike, in fact I recently sold an excellent TZ350 because I was not interested in it. Commandos are the old push-rod two valve technology which pretty much finished in the mid-60s. It is like the Molnar Manx, why would you try to improve a 1962 500cc manx ? My answer is - for the possible sense of achievement when it performs better than a Joe Craig or Francis Beart manx or in the case of a commando, better than a Gus Kuhn, or PW commando machine.
Believe me I'm not trying to be nasty to you, however why do you even own a motorcycle, cars are much more comfortable and will get you there safer and quicker even if the bike is a desmosedici ? My brother-in-law recently told me that I am a 'tinkerer'. I don't usually tinker however I've been known to completely re-engineer certain bits of my bike when I get irritated with its difficulties.
Do you understand why grown men play with scale replica steam trains sitting on the coal tender and riding around the miniature track ? - same thing ! In the 19th century men used to do this with the real deal, and we've now lost the opportunity. Could you recondition the cylinders on a full size steam train, or even want to try ? - I would love to do it.

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

I think there is a sizable faction of us that choose to own and ride stock performing lumps, quite likely for various reasons. I've hot rodded cars, trucks, bikes, sleds, ATV's over the years, spent countless late nights and a dumptruck load of cash doing it. I'm at a place in my life now where I don't have the time or disposable cash, but most importantly the desire to modify a classic survivor. The 850 "plodder" as it's been called, will land me square in jail if ridden to it's limits. It's lots if fun to squeeze it in the twisties. Reliability and longevity enhancements are always worthy of consideration. This site has been a gold mine of information shared by others very passionate about these bikes, and I thank them for the time/effort/heartburn they've saved me... and allowed that time to used for precious RIDING!!! THANK YOU!!! :mrgreen:


It may seem like disproportionate number of modded riders posting, but the modification game takes lots of research/effort/choices... again, this place being a great resource for those choosing to do so.
ENJOY THE RIDE!

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

Search of absolute........quest of Holy grail.....whatever, I am full of respect in front of those guys, who keep on upgrading those bags of nuts, I am like a child at Xmas everytime one of the gurus improve (or not!!) that twin, it's like the end less summer for me.

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

My "daily rider" is a 1973 BMW R75/5, it is competent in every way.

Soon after I got it I started Commando-shopping. I missed owning a maintenance-intensive bike that pops, spits, trips car alarms, makes too much noise and I missed (probably) arriving somewhere smelling like gas with oil on my shoes and various body parts numbed from the vibration.

How much sense does that make?, not much.

A well set-up Commando running through the gears with the throttle cables pulled tight is an experience!!

Vince

Re: I just don't get the endless posts on performance upgrad

My "daily driver" is a 1973 BMW R75/5

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I've owned and/or ridden a few BMWs. The R75/5 was my favorite. A real fun bike to ride.