Hydraulic clutch fitted.

New Hydraulic clutch and switch cluster via CNW fitted.

Still got a few things to do like get rid of those valves in the oil lines.

Don't need no stinkin' cable...

I just have to ask the question......Why on earth have you gone for a hydraulic clutch lever operation? Some very simple clutch calculations for a dry belt drive system.

DRY belt system. Total weight of clutch approx 6 1/2 lb about half the static weight of that vastly overweight lump NVT called the clutch fitted to production 820s. (A gearbox mounted clutch is SUPPOSSED to possess the LIGHTEST rotating weight possible NOT the heaviest). Choose a belt system that gives a 2 to 1 primary ratio and increase gearbox speed BACK to Atlas / 650 levels and reduce the torque being shoved through that vastly overloaded 1920s designed gear cluster thus reducing gearbox problems a tad. Reducing clutch rotating weight helps as well. ALL toothed belts were designed to be employed DRY thus you can run a Norton Commando type clutch as they were designed to be run ....DRY..... thus eliminating slip and drag problems due to oil entering the designed to be employed DRY clutch. Actually the clutch is based on a Hausserman design from the 1940s.
Required clutch torque capacity for design......55 ft lb x 2 primary ratio = 110 ft lb at clutch. Applying x2 rule of thumb clutch safety / service factor gives a requirement of 220 ft lb.

The clutch. 4 Kevlar friction plates..Coefficient of friction DRY approx 0.45. Effective radius approx 0.2 ft.
Thus 220 ft lb = 8 x 0.2 x 0.45 x clamp load required. Thus clamp load required = 305 lbf which is approx 80 lbf LESS than given by the original 750 Commando diaphragm spring clutch which was rediculously easy to operate all day long with no more than two fingersor as I said to the bike owner the very first time I went to engage gear before we took his new fangled Commando on a lap of The Island....' OK so who is the clever ******* who has disconnected the ******* clutch' to which laughing he replied ' Funny but most people ask that question'.
Add to all this the increase in efficiency given by the belt especially at the higher rpm range and the reducyion in vibration a belt gives........
Unfortunately the problem is finding a system maker capable of supplying such a system. I doubt many are even capable of doing such simple basic clutch calculations.......Some even think that AT10 belts were designed to be run with oil......funny how iI have a letter stating that no testing with oil has been conducted .......

OK so dont go for kevlar friction material, use std Surflex plates which must give a coefficient of friction value of approx 0.35 (or higher??) when employed DRY. Thus 220 lbf = 8 x 0.2 x 0.35 x clamp load. Clamp load required = 392 lbf. So scour auto jumbles and find an original 750 Commado diaphragm spring and set it up correctly so it applies 390 odd lbf clamp load. Initial release load at centre of clutch will be approx 215 lbf and with the lever back to the bar around 150 lbf. Dont fit too big a clutch lever...windage might free off the clutch!! I jest of course......

I just have to ask the question......

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For the nth time !!!

I'm going to agree with the crazy cat lady, a properly set up Norton clutch is a one finger party of fun. Get the stack height right and you'll never look at a hydraulic clutch again.

I see people who put hydraulic clutches on the same as people who put Mukunis on. :?

Hey Buddy, love my hydraulic clutch, best mod I ever fitted. HOWEVER, looking at your pics .
This is the worst mod I ever did.
Killed my engine, you only got to forget to turn that valve on once.
jug

Well....

I have had my CNW hydraulic clutch for over two years and consider it a terrific update.

I have been stranded twice before with clutch cables breaking, not going to happen anymore.

The clutch action is remarkably consistent with the same light pull and complete clutch plate separation every time.

But I am an addicted to quality CNW stuff as I also have their robust head steady, Brembo front disc and caliper system, Trispark ignition with their single coil, on and on

No I don't "need" any updates over stock items, I just like em and I am old enough now finally to afford them.

swooshdave said:

I see people who put hydraulic clutches on the same as people who put Mukunis on. :?

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Easy there, big fella! Running a Teflon-lined cable with the properly set stack height, and a Mikuni! Doubt I'll ever change from the combo.

jug said:

Hey Buddy, love my hydraulic clutch, best mod I ever fitted. HOWEVER, looking at your pics .
This is the worst mod I ever did.
Killed my engine, you only got to forget to turn that valve on once.
jug

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I think that's exactly what he was intending to do...

Cobel said:

Still got a few things to do like get rid of those valves in the oil lines.

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Cobel said:

Still got a few things to do like get rid of those valves in the oil lines.

Click to expand...

Hyd clutch is a very nice mod.
Pleeeease, don't ask what oil to run in the primary or engine.

So you kept breaking clutch cables and where were the cables breaking at the handle bar ajuster or at the clutch arm, when I brought my Norton from new for the first few years I was breaking a cable every few months, I got realy good at riding my Norton home without a clutch, but then I realised that the cable was breaking at the handle bar end of the cables, then when I replaced the last cable about 35 years ago I started to put grease on the cable where it runs throught the ajuster, since doing this I have never broken another cable, so now it's part of my nomal maintenance putting a dab of grease on the cable ends, I also do the end on the clutch arm but have never broken the cable there, so every time you pull the clutch the cable is rubbing on the edge of the ajuster and after awhile it sheers the cable, a bit of grease will stop that.

I am still running the orginal plates in my Norton, has always been a one finger operation since new, so to me a hydraulic clutch would make no diffrents to me and my Norton was a everyday ride for most of its life till I brought a new Thruxton just over 3 years ago, now it's semi retired just like me.

Ashley

swooshdave said:

I'm going to agree with the crazy cat lady, a properly set up Norton clutch is a one finger party of fun. Get the stack height right and you'll never look at a hydraulic clutch again.

I see people who put hydraulic clutches on the same as people who put Mukunis on. :?

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I will have to let you ride my bike next time I see you.
And I don't have a single Mikuni.....

By the way, there were 3 different springs used over the years. If you have the light spring used on the early Commandos then a clutch can be pretty light feeling with a cable. If you have the heavy spring as used on the late models they can be a pretty stiff pull even with a good stack height and cable. Jim

jug said:

Hey Buddy, love my hydraulic clutch, best mod I ever fitted. HOWEVER, looking at your pics .

This is the worst mod I ever did.
Killed my engine, you only got to forget to turn that valve on once.
jug

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Yeah, just waiting on a block from Steve Maney and will be replacing those lines altogether with stainless braided ones straight through. Bike came to me like this, only had it a few months and slowly changing all the little things like this.

My cable was on the way out in several spots and I simply figured why not, looks great. I have a dry primary with a Barnett stack, again came with the bike. The spring is quite strong and it has a almost like a two stage pull, starts firm them pops in and then the same on the way out. The result is a minor lock up when coming down the gears hard and a less that elegant take off sometimes. Perhaps I just need to learn to ride better LOL. In any case the hydraulic one looks fantastic and works a treat. Was super easy to fit and now I am worry free. I live in the North West of Australia and the dust here makes any rub point like it has been lathered with garnet and you have to be extra careful, any grease etc just attracts it.

Just waiting on CNW to get stock of Keihin's and then there will be two of them on the bike too.

Good to here regarding the valve in the oil line
Mat supplies some real nice stuff, so does Jim S. Only ever bought from these two guys from this forum (others have great stuff also, I assume). Their service and products are first rate.
Used parts from both in the rebuild of my engine after forgetting to turn on the bloody valve. It was horrible inside the cases .
Never again. lol
JUG

swooshdave said:

I'm going to agree with the crazy cat lady, a properly set up Norton clutch is a one finger party of fun. Get the stack height right and you'll never look at a hydraulic clutch again.

I see people who put hydraulic clutches on the same as people who put Mukunis on. :?

Click to expand...

I love the slick idea of having a hydraulic clutch. I really think it is an awesome mod. The only thing that stops me is the fact that effort I took to get it right the right way and the fact that it work so darn good my pride won't let me get one. Having to screw around with the switch gear along with a clutch that is already awesome dissuades me.

The other thought is that because I have it set up as it should be, a hydraulic clutch would/will only compliment what I have already achieved, and therefore deserve to have it.

Oh, and don't get me started on my Mikuni single carb, it'll blow your twins away. :lol:

A couple of quick comments to add. First, I believe Jim Comstock developed the hydraulic clutch conversion that cNw offers. I have one on my bike and it is to die for as I too was the victim of a broken clutch cable on a Sunday ride last year. The hydraulic clutch, in my view, is a great retrofit to any vintage Norton. I also had a single Mikuni and switched to twin FCR's to feed my Fullauto head. The 'twins' are just what the bike needed! Oil shut off valves? Mechanical ones, like the ones in the previous photos, do add a lot of responsibility to the owner; starting and riding the bike without turning them on will leave you in a solid state of anguish and despair. The good news for all of us that would rather not deal with wet sumping is that cNw have a 'fail safe' electro-mechanical valve in the works which will eliminate the oil ending up in the crankcase after a 'prolonged' period of storage. Stay tuned as I am. All good stuff. I realize that a lot of Norton enthusiasts like to keep their bikes original. For myself, I like to keep my bike reliable and running so I support modifications. To each his own. We all love our Norty's and, in the end, that's what counts.

Cheers, Bryan

1up3down said:

Well....



I have been stranded twice before with clutch cables breaking, not going to happen anymore.

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Evidently, you never heard of carrying a spare in the headlight shell. :lol: Learned that one the hard way one night when I pushed it the last mile home.

I've had more than a handful of clutch cables break over 45 years and 160+ bikes, never stranded me. Sure it's a bother...

(a few throttle cables as well, didn't slow me down for too long, and always got home)

Plus, if you blow a slave or a master, you're not gonna pull one of them out of the headlight shell, or anywhere else, if you get my drift. :lol:

Since fitting the hydraulic clutch its been a dream, so easy and smooth. Before even with adjustment it never liked to go in to neutral easily, now straight in every time.

Also received my oil block from steve maney and new filter housing from Andover, now just got to fit to the bike. No more valves, especially as the valve mod done by PO was of the worst quality.