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Hot and cold starting...

Discussion in 'Norton Motorcycles (Modern)' started by iwilson, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. Welshrugby

    Welshrugby

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Damn, lovely day and dry so want a spin but about 10 attempts and cannot get it started. I normally dont touch the throttle at all but if problems, wasn't it a full turn to get it to re learn?
     
  2. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    If it doesnt fire up with throttle closed , then try opening up the throttle when cranking .
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  3. Welshrugby

    Welshrugby

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Think I have drained the battery now, its just clicking. Damn, missed a nice ride out. Will give that a go later tonight, dont want to be sending back to the factory just yet.
     
  4. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Are you using the charging plug , so no tank removal ? Your battery should be topped up in an hour.
     
  5. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    RTFM...!

    The Handbook sayeth:

    “In very cold conditions, part open the throttle to aid cold starting”.

    Ref the re-lean thing, I though it was:
    Ign on
    Fully open throttle
    Close throttle
    Ign off
    Ign on
    Start engine.

    Can’t recall where I got that from though...
     
  6. iwilson

    iwilson

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Got an email from my engine tuner this morning to tell me my bike is ready and in his words - "Just been fiddling with the starting. Backed everything off and just rely on one setting the water temp." Unfortunately his email ended with, off to the Burt Munro Rally this morning. Which btw is 1,000 miles to the south and no not on my Norton!

    Point being the engine temp sensor one of the key settings in the ECU for starting.
     
    contours likes this.
  7. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Hello Iwilson , Looking forward to your review of your new ECU tune. Did you say you will be running the SC Delta 400 now ? And Im hoping for higher power and torque spread.
     
  8. iwilson

    iwilson

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Hi Tony, yes running the SC Delta 400 now. I did post some graphs a week or so ago. But haven't got the data file yet (and won't for at least a week or two). But the bottom line is there's doesn't appear to be much more to give in terms of peak hp but quite a bit more mid range. You'd need to start playing around with cams etc to get more. Good thing is my bike has done all its runs on the same dyno and it's the change in number rather than the number itself that's more useful as dynos often don't agree with one another. But there's only so much you can do playing around with fueling, timing etc it's a pretty conservative engine design after all.

    Should be able to pick it up this week sometime, I have low expectations going forward given the past!
     
  9. BritTwit

    BritTwit VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    I agree for the most part.
    Without addressing the inlet restrictions (airbox,) hp gains at the top of the rpm range will be very limited.
    Even with a better (larger) airbox, you're probably not going to get more than another 5hp or so up top.
    The best benefit will come from getting the AFM optimized for easy and reliable good starting, and crisp throttle response through out the entire rpm range.

    If you're looking for more, then you'll need head work, pistons, cams......, and there aren't any parts suppliers getting in line to develop components for the 961.
     
    contours likes this.
  10. iwilson

    iwilson

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    What that man said.

    The object of the exercise was to try and sort out the starting gremlins, any thing else was a bonus. But looks like some nice mid range gains. Will post data when I receive it.
     
    TonyA likes this.
  11. Welshrugby

    Welshrugby

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Fired her up tonight, gave a little bit of throttle, started after about 10 seconds with a bang and then smoked a bit mainly out of the right hand pipe. Let it run for a couple more mins and now back on trickle charge. Hoping for some dry days soon
     
  12. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Thumbs up !
     
  13. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Your experience with this will help many of us moving forward . The mid range was where most of the gains were made on my bike too going from stock pipes and map to 077 catless shorties. Simon Marshall said 5 HP gains in the middle were what they were seeing at Norton . Thank you for your efforts .
     
  14. gchoppin

    gchoppin

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    This is somewhat off subject but I just installed my Thiel Mortorsport exhaust. I still have the OEM SC ECU map. I installed the Norton OEM decat and the Aprila lamda deletes prior to the Thiel install. That bike had not run in two months but started and idled with minimal throttle help. It seems like the more I unchoke the motor the better it runs. More to come on my Thiel Motorsport thread about the exhaust.
     
    Fast Eddie likes this.
  15. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Good News.
     
  16. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    And doncha think they sound awesome ?
     
  17. TonyA

    TonyA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Hello FE , Did you say they were a bit quieter than the Norton shorties ?
     
  18. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Well Tony, I thought so. But when Ben came around for a look and a listen he thought it was louder!

    So, it’s 50/50 whether it’s louder or quieter.

    For me, irrespective of overall volume, the tone is much deeper. They make the engine sound bigger somehow. They definitely sound much better.
     
  19. gchoppin

    gchoppin

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    YES it's a Snortin Nortin, with the Thiel exhaust. I know but it rhymes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
    TonyA likes this.
  20. Welshrugby

    Welshrugby

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Nice weather conditions the other night so took for a spin. Started fairly easily but quite a bit more fumes from the right hand pipe which is a bit sooty within the end of the can. It was a bit lumpy when slowing down for traffic lights with the clutch in and stalled. Had a little problem starting but fired up but had I not kept blipping the throttle, it would have died on me. Got back home ok but i cant help thinks its running a bit rich. Will have another blast soon.
     

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