Help! I've been FRAMED!

gjr · Jan 6, 2015

The frames are pretty flimsy, so I'd be a little surprised if the only thing that was bent was the lower tube. It could be worth sticking a few rods through the front and rear isolastic mounts and see they are in the same plane. If you hang the rear cradle and swing arm you can check the rear axle and iso mounts. A bar through the steering head will let you eyeball any twist in the frame loops.

It is good to have friends who can run a lathe and weld.

Greg

dennisgb · Jan 6, 2015

gjr said:
The frames are pretty flimsy, so I'd be a little surprised if the only thing that was bent was the lower tube. It could be worth sticking a few rods through the front and rear isolastic mounts and see they are in the same plane. If you hang the rear cradle and swing arm you can check the rear axle and iso mounts. A bar through the steering head will let you eyeball any twist in the frame loops. Greg

+1

snortonNorton · Jan 7, 2015

gjr said:
The frames are pretty flimsy, so I'd be a little surprised if the only thing that was bent was the lower tube. It could be worth sticking a few rods through the front and rear isolastic mounts and see they are in the same plane. If you hang the rear cradle and swing arm you can check the rear axle and iso mounts. A bar through the steering head will let you eyeball any twist in the frame loops.

It is good to have friends who can run a lathe and weld.

Greg

We did put rods through all the holes and checked measurement's on both sides in every direction. All is square and true. My buddy Pete who is helping me here has been a professional body man for 30+ years. He has straightened out many frames over the years, and you are right it's good to have friends to lean on.
thank you for the advice.

snortonNorton · Jan 13, 2015

Frame all welded in and ground down.

gjr · Jan 13, 2015

Nicely done. Are you going to add a second cross tube farther up the down tubes ?

Greg

lcrken · Jan 13, 2015

Looks like a quality repair. Another one saved!

Ken

cjandme · Jan 14, 2015

gjr said:
Nicely done. Are you going to add a second cross tube farther up the down tubes ?
Greg

I remember reading about the Dreer VR 880's and they had done it to their frames, the article said that it stopped the down tubes from "walking" when under load. Always seemed like a good Idea to me

motorson · Jan 14, 2015

gjr wrote:
Nicely done. Are you going to add a second cross tube farther up the down tubes ?
Greg
cjandme wrote:
I remember reading about the Dreer VR 880's and they had done it to their frames, the article said that it stopped the down tubes from "walking" when under load. Always seemed like a good Idea to me

The Dreer modification was an additional cross bar on the down tubes above the front motor mounts if I remember correctly. The later Commando frames also had a cross bar just behind the bottom bend of the down tubes which is where the side stand lug ties in. So, on this frame, it would involve 2 more cross bars to come up to the Dreer spec.
Dan.

snortonNorton · Jan 14, 2015

gjr said:
Nicely done. Are you going to add a second cross tube farther up the down tubes ?

Greg

I did notice that many of the frames had the cross bar just behind the down tube bend. I am sure it would benefit from this, but I think I will keep it as original looking as possible.

dennisgb · Jan 14, 2015

snortonNorton said:
gjr said:

Nicely done. Are you going to add a second cross tube farther up the down tubes ?

Greg

Click to expand...

I did notice that many of the frames had the cross bar just behind the down tube bend. I am sure it would benefit from this, but I think I will keep it as original looking as possible.

You might kick yourself later for not doing this or adding a cross brace higher up the down tubes. It's a weak spot in the frame.

snortonNorton · Jan 14, 2015

I know, This whole bike project is all about staying stock or upgrading. I am torn apart on every decision. I am upgrading the steering head bearings, because they are not visible. I'm upgrading all or most of the bearings including crank, not visible and reliability. I am upgrading some electrical components but still debating whether to go with electronic ignition. The original side stand is ugly and useless, so I might put on the longer one and just keep the original one for the next owner, maybe do the same with the ignition. Same with the tank debating buying a new steel one and keep the fiberglass one all painted up for originality. I have already bought stainless spokes, just waiting for there arrival.
I am pulling my hair out here. to many decisions. Update or Not.
What I would like to do is keep this bike original than buy another one to modernize like CNW is doing. Where funding is the only limitation.

snortonNorton · Jan 14, 2015

dennisgb said:
snortonNorton said:

gjr said:

Nicely done. Are you going to add a second cross tube farther up the down tubes ?

Greg

Click to expand...

I did notice that many of the frames had the cross bar just behind the down tube bend. I am sure it would benefit from this, but I think I will keep it as original looking as possible.

Click to expand...

You might kick yourself later for not doing this or adding a cross brace higher up the down tubes. It's a weak spot in the frame.

I wonder if I could make a clamp-in cross brace behind the weld. Something like an after market fork brace. Than it could be removed if someone wanted to keep the bike all original. I can see from the front isolastic to the cross member is quite a distance and I am sure there is flex there under load. I am going to consider your advice, thank you.

kommando · Jan 14, 2015

I am pulling my hair out here. to many decisions. Update or Not.

For some reason (these bikes are ridden not trailer queens is my thought) sensible upgrades are accepted without comment or commented favourably on, so hang off the worries and make those decisions without guilt.

B+Bogus · Jan 14, 2015

Great work so far

I've heard the early centrestand isn't up to much (and they're either out of stock or shockingly expensive!), but I didn't think the sidestand was an issue?
I'm now nervous as I'm just about to put together a '69 Fastback and was rather hoping the sidestand would be OK - what do other folks think?

As for upgrading...

For what it's worth, I'm all in favour of modern electronics & suspension upgrades. Points accuracy on a 45 year old advance/retard unit may be a challenge...
The only essential I can think of is an upgraded layshaft bearing.

john robert bould · Jan 14, 2015

Only after 40 years have i been made aware of gearbox bearings failing, my mate thrashed his 71 fast back to hell and did'nt suffer any gearbox failings. Ok he bust the engine big style , changing into second to show a works van the berries....voooooommmmm bang! You know the story.
My MK 111 still as the original lay bearing......gulp :!: sound's good but only 6k on the clock...did time bomb's have clocks?...Tick, Tick. Tick

dennisgb · Jan 14, 2015

snortonNorton said:
I know, This whole bike project is all about staying stock or upgrading. I am torn apart on every decision. I am upgrading the steering head bearings, because they are not visible. I'm upgrading all or most of the bearings including crank, not visible and reliability. I am upgrading some electrical components but still debating whether to go with electronic ignition. The original side stand is ugly and useless, so I might put on the longer one and just keep the original one for the next owner, maybe do the same with the ignition. Same with the tank debating buying a new steel one and keep the fiberglass one all painted up for originality. I have already bought stainless spokes, just waiting for there arrival.
I am pulling my hair out here. to many decisions. Update or Not.
What I would like to do is keep this bike original than buy another one to modernize like CNW is doing. Where funding is the only limitation.

There are camps both ways...whether to do it all stock or upgrade the bad points. The problem you have is you have a bare frame and right now it would be easy to add braces (clamping a pipe brace on there would be difficult and might not do much). If you go down the path and figure out that you need better suspension, brakes and a multitude of other things and the bike is all put together, like I said you will kick yourself that you didn't brace the frame when it was apart. I would do it now...and not look back. Just my opinion.

gjr · Jan 14, 2015

The original side stand works fine. Even loaded up for touring I have never had the bike fall off the side stand. The centerstand is not Norton's brightest idea (would be nice if it lifted one wheel off the ground), but it works. If your friend can cut a section out of the frame, make and weld in a new section, I'm guessing he could put a cross tube in. If someone doesn't like it in the future, they can cut it out.

As far as upgrades, I like the ones that make the bike more useable while keeping the bike spiritually stock. Definitely go with a steel tank and electronic ignition. A higher output alternator will let you run a 55W headlight. You might also consider some sort of cush drive ('71-'75 rear hub) and a belt drive. Etc. Etc. Etc. The best thing is that you don't have to do them all at once. I've had this bike 30 years and I'm still working on it.

Greg

snortonNorton · Jan 14, 2015

Well I still have to bead blast the frame might consider welding a piece in then.
Electronic ignition is looking more & more attractive as well. My side cover came in today from New Zeeland (BRITISHSPARES.COM).

Looks pretty nice, I like the metal flake emerald green, But I think I am going traditional black & Gold or Silver.

Dennis C · Jan 14, 2015

I did not see it but I would get new ISO's. I got a set that are veneer adjustable that fit the old frame with out modification. If it is rubber replace it. I would also do one of the swing arm upgrades I used the clamps to stiffen the swing arm pivot. I used the old britts power Arc electronic ignition. Not cheap but I really liked how it works. I have 1200 miles on it and it was easy to install complete and it has worked for me , It does loose the coils so not exactly not noticeable. I just wanted trouble free installation and performance.

Not sure about value, but if it is not an original survivor I do not think you will do any thing but enhance the value by upgrading some of the things recommended-- frame bracing and new kick stand, up graded hub. Check but I do not think that the new and old side stands will fit on the same lug location.

Dennis

Fast Eddie · Jan 14, 2015

snortonNorton said:
Well I still have to bead blast the frame might consider welding a piece in then.
Electronic ignition is looking more & more attractive as well. My side cover came in today from New Zeeland (BRITISHSPARES.COM).

Looks pretty nice, I like the metal flake emerald green, But I think I am going traditional black & Gold or Silver.

Oh that'll be nice... another black and gold Commando... just like ALL the others...!

I thought part of the appeal of these old bikes was to express a little individuality...?

Help! I've been FRAMED!

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