Help! I've been FRAMED!

snortonNorton · Jan 4, 2015

I have a 1970 roadster I am restoring. You have all helped me tons on a few previous posts. I bought this bike last month and have got it all stripped down now. Lots of upgrades needed.
But now that the motor is out I see the FRAME is bent, welded and messed up. I can fix it. Not a problem. But I am not sure of the orientation of the side stand and what does the plate with 2 holes for I know that is stock? I don't remember unbolting anything from there. The other bracket welded in must have been for an aftermarket side stand.
here are some pics & if any one has a unmolested frame please post a pic so I have something to work from. thank you

I was thinking about doing a blog on this ground up restoration. Not sure if this is the right place to do it or not.

grandpaul · Jan 4, 2015

This is the right place for a build thread, but you'll want to title it appropriately.

I sure think that frame needs careful measuring before you do anything else to it.

L.A.B. · Jan 4, 2015

snortonNorton said:
But I am not sure of the orientation of the side stand and what does the plate with 2 holes for I know that is stock? I don't remember unbolting anything from there. The other bracket welded in must have been for an aftermarket side stand.

question-about-bending-sidestand-t8405.html

B+Bogus · Jan 4, 2015

Hope these shed some light...

I just noticed '969' stamped on the bracket - would this have anything to do with the build date anyone?
Later 750s have the date stamped on the triangular gusset behind the LH Z plate

Note that the bracket is welded on vertically, in line with the centrestand mounts

And finally, the sidestand bracket itself - still available, but a bit pricey

baldy · Jan 4, 2015

I also have a 1970 roadster. You have a lot of fixing to do. Luckily the frame dimensions are in the 1970 on workshop manual. The 1970 sidestand is a poor design so I would consider upgrading to welding the newer design if you are going to do all that work.

snortonNorton · Jan 4, 2015

baldy said:
I also have a 1970 roadster. You have a lot of fixing to do. Luckily the frame dimensions are in the 1970 on workshop manual. The 1970 sidestand is a poor design so I would consider upgrading to welding the newer design if you are going to do all that work.

I am going to look into that as well. Good advice, thank you

snortonNorton · Jan 4, 2015

Those pics are perfect. And I didn't realise that side stand mount bolted to those 2 holes. That is how badly this was scabbed together.
I would like to keep it as stock as possible. I already have the frame piece cut out and tomorrow my buddy will find a replacement at his machine shop to weld in. We will jack the frame back down about 3 mm before welding. I have all the frame measurements from previous posts on here.
Thanks again,
Bruce

snortonNorton · Jan 4, 2015

L.A.B. said:
snortonNorton said:

But I am not sure of the orientation of the side stand and what does the plate with 2 holes for I know that is stock? I don't remember unbolting anything from there. The other bracket welded in must have been for an aftermarket side stand.

Click to expand...

question-about-bending-sidestand-t8405.html

That is a great picture of the side stand assembly. I had no idea that bolted into those 2 holes and clamped over the frame.
thank you

gjr · Jan 4, 2015

It is not critical, but the center of the hole in the upper right corner of the side stand plate is 1 1/2" from the center of the cross tube on my '70.

Greg

DogT · Jan 4, 2015

My prop stand has served me well over the years and I even start the bike on the prop stand. Maybe I'm just not as brutal as some are, don't know. But here's a bunch of pics I have of the assembly,

The the stand could be about 2" longer and then the bike wouldn't feel like it's about to fall over. I usually put a block of 2x or 1x under it.

Take note that the pin that holds the stand on is not safe with just c clips. I replaced it with a bolt and nylock. For complete originality look, drill a hole in the bracket and put a grub/set screw in the thing.

motorson · Jan 4, 2015

Old Britts sells the proper lug for the long side stand that works well. It comes with instructions of how to weld it in and get the angle right. That is the one I would go with since I really like the later model long side stand.

cjandme · Jan 4, 2015

motorson said:
Old Britts sells the proper lug for the long side stand that works well. It comes with instructions of how to weld it in and get the angle right. That is the one I would go with since I really like the later model long side stand.

+1

dave M · Jan 5, 2015

The weld-on lug for the long centre stand derives a lot of it's strength from the forward frame cross tube on the later frames, this is not present on this earlier frame.

cjandme · Jan 5, 2015

dave M said:
The weld-on lug for the long centre stand derives a lot of it's strength from the forward frame cross tube on the later frames, this is not present on this earlier frame.

Thanks dave, i missed that :roll:

snortonNorton · Jan 5, 2015

motorson said:
Old Britts sells the proper lug for the long side stand that works well. It comes with instructions of how to weld it in and get the angle right. That is the one I would go with since I really like the later model long side stand.

I like the look of the longer side stand as well. That's the route I will probably go.

snortonNorton · Jan 5, 2015

gjr said:
It is not critical, but the center of the hole in the upper right corner of the side stand plate is 1 1/2" from the center of the cross tube on my '70.

Greg

Good to know because I will be welding it back in.
Thank you

snortonNorton · Jan 5, 2015

dave M said:
The weld-on lug for the long centre stand derives a lot of it's strength from the forward frame cross tube on the later frames, this is not present on this earlier frame.

I noticed that on some of the frames the cross tube was farther forward. I was going to insert & weld a smaller diameter pipe inside the frame and the section I am welding in. This will give it more strength as well. Also in one of the photos above, the frame is actually pinched in a bit where the side stand clamps to the 2 hole frame plate. The insert tube should prevent this from happening.

dennisgb · Jan 5, 2015

snortonNorton said:
dave M said:

The weld-on lug for the long centre stand derives a lot of it's strength from the forward frame cross tube on the later frames, this is not present on this earlier frame.

Click to expand...

I noticed that on some of the frames the cross tube was farther forward. I was going to insert & weld a smaller diameter pipe inside the frame and the section I am welding in. This will give it more strength as well. Also in one of the photos above, the frame is actually pinched in a bit where the side stand clamps to the 2 hole frame plate. The insert tube should prevent this from happening.

How are you going to insure that the frame is straight? Rear wheel to steering head? It looks like the frame is bent.

Dennis C · Jan 5, 2015

before you do any work on the side stand lugs check out the Old Britts side stand mount.

You would cut all the old mounts away clean the frame tubes and then weld on the new mount.

I did mine with the motor in the frame, but much easier to do with the bare frame

You can not use the longer kick stand with the old mounting lug.

Dennis

snortonNorton · Jan 6, 2015

I found the frame measurements on the internet, here is the link http://www.rocbo.net/technique/norton_w ... /f/f04.gif
Only the left side of the frame was bent from the bottom. looks like he jumped a curb and missed.

cleaning and grinding bevel for weld

couldn't find an exact piece of metal pipe, so had one made by a friend, heavier gauge so he could machine it down to fit inside original frame.

hydraulic jacked frame back out. about 3-4mm

piece tacked in place, checked all measurement's, and leveled upper frame to floor than lower frame rails to match, all good
just got to check front isolastics width before final welding. This lower frame is going to be beefier so it shouldn't collapse when tightening or using the side stand.

Help! I've been FRAMED!

snortonNorton

grandpaul

L.A.B.

Moderator

B+Bogus

baldy

snortonNorton

snortonNorton

snortonNorton

gjr

DogT

motorson

cjandme

dave M

cjandme

snortonNorton

snortonNorton

snortonNorton

dennisgb

Dennis C

snortonNorton

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