Help Identifying a Cam

marshg246 · Nov 9, 2019

I have 72 bottom end that I'm rebuilding and it has a cam I can't identify. The only markings are in the picture and the lobe next to it has 3.3 (barely visible I the picture). If I'm measuring correctly, it has .370 lift for both intake and exhaust. Both ends are scrolled.

Matt Spencer · Nov 9, 2019

Theres a possability it may be a 4 S , as it seems to be stamped ' 4 S '
' 6000 '

THERE .
Now a 4S is a 2 S with .020 of of the base . No doubt a shirt fight'll start.
over that .

Were early cams with a .020 greater base radius .

When they started hitting the tappet guide block / Bottoming out , etc - with the High Lifts - past the 2S which was the olde factory RACE CAM ,
In the first ' P R ' Knortons etc .
They lost 20 thou off the heel , so they gcould grow a bit on the peak ( lobe )

So there you are .

Stamping can be a bit funny . A close look at the ' 3 S ' on removal ,
was evidance it was really a ' S S ' but stamed on the circumferance a S appeared as a 3 unless you were out in the sun or used a eye glass .

Dances with Shrapnel · Nov 9, 2019

Nose of the nearest lobe looks like it has spalled.

comnoz · Nov 9, 2019

I don't know who MS is but with 370 lift it is likely someones standard replacement.

Time Warp · Nov 10, 2019

It also has a stamped T under the M like a stock cam.... Maybe it is a Delta regrind but the base circle would need to be measured.

marshg246 · Nov 10, 2019

Time Warp said:
It also has a stamped T under the M like a stock cam.... Maybe it is a Delta regrind but the base circle would need to be measured.

Base circle is .872

Looking with a strong magnifying glass I can see that the MS and the 000 are clearly stamped. The 6 is not nearly as clear - its definitely a 6 but not as deep. The M may have been stamped over something else, but if so, it can't be made out.

marshg246 · Nov 10, 2019

Dances with Shrapnel said:
Nose of the nearest lobe looks like it has spalled.

That one lobe does have a small imperfection that appears to be a manufacturing defect.

Fast Eddie · Nov 10, 2019

Whatever the cause of that imperfection, it’s on the nose, smack in the area of greatest stress and wear.
That cam is therefore either scrap or a donor for hard welding IMHO...

marshg246 · Nov 10, 2019

Fast Eddie said:
Whatever the cause of that imperfection, it’s on the nose, smack in the area of greatest stress and wear.
That cam is therefore either scrap or a donor for hard welding IMHO...

I agree.

Part of what I'm trying to figure out is if it can be reground to standard or Combat or something else useful. I have no way to measure its timing. If someone can identify it, and then if I can find its parameters, I can decide.

dynodave · Nov 10, 2019

You will probably not get a PW3 or combat out of a regrind.
maybe one of these, closer to .350 lift:

or:

Dances with Shrapnel · Nov 10, 2019

marshg246 said:
I agree.

Part of what I'm trying to figure out is if it can be reground to standard or Combat or something else useful.

I would think the price of sorting it out and regrinding to a useful profile is approaching if not exceeding the price of a replacement cam.

Time Warp · Nov 10, 2019

marshg246 said:
Base circle is .872

Looking with a strong magnifying glass I can see that the MS and the 000 are clearly stamped. The 6 is not nearly as clear - its definitely a 6 but not as deep. The M may have been stamped over something else, but if so, it can't be made out.

That base circle diameter seems small so maybe a stock regrind... That sure does look like a factory stamped T with the M partially stamped over it and Delta Camshaft in WA sprang to mind.
A moot point if the lobe is failing.

Time Warp · Nov 10, 2019

marshg246 said:
I agree.

Part of what I'm trying to figure out is if it can be reground to standard or Combat or something else useful. I have no way to measure its timing. If someone can identify it, and then if I can find its parameters, I can decide.

If the base circle is already reduced so the lobe could be ground even on a stock profile I doubt it could be redone that way without build up of the marked section, but that area is not clear in the picture.

It might be better to post a clear picture overhead of that marked lobe for someone like JC or DD to look at or it is just guess work or speculation.

marshg246 · Nov 10, 2019

Dances with Shrapnel said:
I would think the price of sorting it out and regrinding to a useful profile is approaching if not exceeding the price of a replacement cam.

You are most likely right and I am already looking for a replacement.

The only new ones available are expensive. I can get new Hepolite cams at a reasonable price, but they are chilled iron and I'm not sure I want that and I've not heard good or bad about them. The Hepolite billet cams are quite a bit more expensive. AN is out of stock and even more expensive still..

This is another of my dumb ideas. I got a decent deal on this bottom end and planned to rebuild if for the next guy who came to me with a blown engine. Having to buy a cam makes that not so smart unless I can find a good used one. Fortunately the crank and rods are good.

dynodave · Nov 10, 2019

My sample Web 132 BC is .877 I could live with a cam with only .005" smaller BC.
What is a hepolite cam?

OT: I have just recently measured a cam that has a 2S grind, but is absolutely a different scrolling which is of the MKIII oiler scrolling.

L.A.B. · Nov 10, 2019

dynodave said:
What is a hepolite cam?

https://www.classicbikepartscheshir...37/bolt-sets-camshafts-nuts-c129/hepolite-m34

marshg246 · Nov 10, 2019

dynodave said:
What is a hepolite cam?

Hepolite is a company that has existed for a very long time, legally. They make pistons, rings, cams, etc. for Vintage British Motorcycles, some (all?) in the UK. They were bought by Wassell in 2011 if I remember right.

Dances with Shrapnel · Nov 10, 2019

marshg246 said:
You are most likely right and I am already looking for a replacement.

Good quality and selection with these folks:

https://www.megacyclecams.com/

comnoz on this list sells web cams which have a good reputation.

jseng on this list sells his proprietary cams; they may be geared towards race tune but he can chime in here.

There was a person in the Pacific Northwest (Johnson cams) who made a few grinds but I don’t know if he is in the fray.

There should be an abundance of NOS OEM stuff and custom out there but buyer beware.

L.A.B. · Nov 10, 2019

marshg246 said:
Hepolite is a company that has existed for a very long time, legally. They make pistons, rings, cams, etc. for Vintage British Motorcycles, some (all?) in the UK. They were bought by Wassell in 2011 if I remember right.

'Hepolite' was a trademark used by Hepworth & Grandage which was a company that became part of AE, then much later Federal-Mogul.

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Hepworth_and_Grandage
"1947 Acquired by Associated Engineering Group."

Wassell acquired the 'Hepolite' trademark so it's Hepolite in name only.

https://www.totalbikebits.com/wassell_history.html
"In 2011, the Company acquired the Hepolite brand, trademark and goodwill from the Federal-Mogul Group. Originally Hepolite was a brand name of Hepworth & Grandage, who later merged with Wellworthy Pistons Ltd, to form A E Piston Products Ltd"

marshg246 · Nov 10, 2019

L.A.B. said:
'Hepolite' was a trademark used by Hepworth & Grandage which was a company that became part of AE, then much later Federal-Mogul.

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Hepworth_and_Grandage
"1947 Acquired by Associated Engineering Group."

Wassell acquired the 'Hepolite' trademark so it's Hepolite in name only.

https://www.totalbikebits.com/wassell_history.html
"In 2011, the Company acquired the Hepolite brand, trademark and goodwill from the Federal-Mogul Group. Originally Hepolite was a brand name of Hepworth & Grandage, who later merged with Wellworthy Pistons Ltd, to form A E Piston Products Ltd"

Ok, as usual, I stand corrected.

Hepolite is a brand not a company. Since the 60s I've known them as piston makers and always thought the Hepolite was the name of the company.

I suppose a great many companies and brands are in name only.

Help Identifying a Cam

marshg246

Matt Spencer

Dances with Shrapnel

comnoz

Time Warp

.......back to the 70's.

marshg246

marshg246

Fast Eddie

marshg246

dynodave

Dances with Shrapnel

Time Warp

.......back to the 70's.

Time Warp

.......back to the 70's.

marshg246

dynodave

L.A.B.

Moderator

marshg246

Dances with Shrapnel

L.A.B.

Moderator

marshg246

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