Head sealing methods
- Thread starter Hobot
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Steve - even if you run fuel good enough for 17:1, the engine components won't handle the loads. Please reconsider.
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Nope Sir its the Norton drive train that will be Peels weak point. There have been and are examples of similar combustion pressure power level Nortons, just not on pump gas and creek water. Conservative guessimates of builders and calculator is unboosted base line 80 hp, with 8 PSI boost about 120ish hp/90's lb-ft, if 10 PSI then 140 hp/100's tq, at 7000 rpm but Peel's set up data in calculators imply the power graph gets steeper to 8000 and boost could hit 12 PSI. One reason for me to stick with long stroke was for the piston acceleration past TDC to help out run detonation. These figures include the valve sizes and mach velocity and octane, which only needs 112 oct to keep full pressure spark timing. I've a boost pop off valve if too much to take it all.
Will Peel blow her head or just my mind?
No worries Steve, I plan to take care of the Jap bikes for you with the 1360 Egli. The Surtees /Quaife is ordered, just need a few bits for the timing chest and it is assembly time. Getting some great exhaust design info from Roy Robertson,holder of two UK speed records on an Egli 1272.
It would be nice to do it on a Norton, but beating Jap bikes with a Vincent will be almost as sweet. First challenge will be a local loudmouth with an RC51 Honda. Think I could almost pull that off with the tuned 1000 that is in the bike right now
Still having some problems with the speedo/tach combo. Once it is working it gives me 0-60 times, 1/4mile et and other performance info. Best to go into the contest already knowing the likely result.
Glen
It would be nice to do it on a Norton, but beating Jap bikes with a Vincent will be almost as sweet. First challenge will be a local loudmouth with an RC51 Honda. Think I could almost pull that off with the tuned 1000 that is in the bike right now
Still having some problems with the speedo/tach combo. Once it is working it gives me 0-60 times, 1/4mile et and other performance info. Best to go into the contest already knowing the likely result.
Glen
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Damn Glen a nice stable you earned. Hehe are we having fun yet planning and plotting? The moderns sports bikes/racers suffer a weakness in sprints as they are wheelie prone but still pull real hard for a long time. To me their main weakness is limited power planting when leaned. Peel will tuck down a few inches in front and I want digital throttle-traction freedom response but its a literal leap of faith to work up to using it fully when leaning a lot ie: Power to trip right out before apexes then spend the rest of the turn power crashing the other way to save the first one. We should have some nice sound tracks to offer up someday.
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hobot is referring to the effective compression ratio.
Concerns about snapping open the throttle is a non-issue (unless on grass
); the Drouin is a centrifugal blower and boost is a function of engine speed. In contrast, if the blower were a roots type then snapping the throttle would yield immediate boost.
With proper assembly (assuming it is an 850) and cast iron barrels, it should easily handle whatever the Drouin throws at it. I ran mine with a moderate race cam and Omega 10.25:1 CR pistons with no problems.
The biggest challenge is heat, and lots of it. It will also detract from the nimble handling characteristics of a Norton.
If you are considering strapping down the engine assembly, use truck binders as they will make servicing the components so much easier and they will look trick.
Concerns about snapping open the throttle is a non-issue (unless on grass
); the Drouin is a centrifugal blower and boost is a function of engine speed. In contrast, if the blower were a roots type then snapping the throttle would yield immediate boost.With proper assembly (assuming it is an 850) and cast iron barrels, it should easily handle whatever the Drouin throws at it. I ran mine with a moderate race cam and Omega 10.25:1 CR pistons with no problems.
The biggest challenge is heat, and lots of it. It will also detract from the nimble handling characteristics of a Norton.
If you are considering strapping down the engine assembly, use truck binders as they will make servicing the components so much easier and they will look trick.
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worntorn said:
Good luck Glen
Please explain how you beat 135 hp and 170mph topspeed with a Vincent?
Thanks
Hartmut
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Effective CR, OK, that makes sense.
I was thinking boost on top of 17:1 static!
I was thinking boost on top of 17:1 static!
WEAL Norton said:
Something like this , only this is a standard bore and stroke machine (998CC) and the bike he outruns is a zx12R, considerably faster than an RC 51. I'm building a 1360 race motor and putting it in a lightweight rolling chassis, 350 lbs dry.
I think it has a pretty good chance of doing the job.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRCWS0_MEs
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LOL!!! HAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! Old Iron flattening a crotchrocket! Yeah Man!!!
That is exactly what happened with Ms Peel against them plastic buzz bombs till I ran out of rpm in 2nd, about 90, so they didn't have a chance in the tights, cornering or out gunning. Very strange sensation I tell you what but oh so very addicting.
Ms Peel has 10.5 static CR with JS's light forged piston set and rods, maybe a bit more with initial .020" gasket for tight ass squish bands, which are like double the factory thin rims. Calculators says 10 PSI @ 7000 rpm with the Norris D cam not closing the intake till 76' ABDC, implies CR into the 17:1 "effective" CR which is not same thing as "dynamic ratio thay goes by when intake closes, which in in Peel gives 7.5 CR. Basically doing what Mercedes does with their hi CR V8, thats a hot rod to begin with, then add low-moderate boost on top, so kicks ass down low pure V8 power to spin tires then as rpm builds and head flow normally stifles the power band, the boost picks up so it comes on full cam early and harder all the way to red line.
That is exactly what happened with Ms Peel against them plastic buzz bombs till I ran out of rpm in 2nd, about 90, so they didn't have a chance in the tights, cornering or out gunning. Very strange sensation I tell you what but oh so very addicting.
Ms Peel has 10.5 static CR with JS's light forged piston set and rods, maybe a bit more with initial .020" gasket for tight ass squish bands, which are like double the factory thin rims. Calculators says 10 PSI @ 7000 rpm with the Norris D cam not closing the intake till 76' ABDC, implies CR into the 17:1 "effective" CR which is not same thing as "dynamic ratio thay goes by when intake closes, which in in Peel gives 7.5 CR. Basically doing what Mercedes does with their hi CR V8, thats a hot rod to begin with, then add low-moderate boost on top, so kicks ass down low pure V8 power to spin tires then as rpm builds and head flow normally stifles the power band, the boost picks up so it comes on full cam early and harder all the way to red line.
I thought that might make your day.
The rider is Dick Craven, in his late 60s or might be 70, still sprinting and beating quite a few Jap bikes, plus the odd Ducati that shows up.
He ran a 10.77 not too long ago.
Most of the crotchrockets do not run anywhere near as fast thru the 1/4 as the Motorcycle mags would have us believe.
And their peak Hp number is just that, only a peak number,achieved for a split second or not at all.
Look down the rpm range in the powerband and you find the hp numbers are very low for most sportbikes.
Glen
The rider is Dick Craven, in his late 60s or might be 70, still sprinting and beating quite a few Jap bikes, plus the odd Ducati that shows up.
He ran a 10.77 not too long ago.
Most of the crotchrockets do not run anywhere near as fast thru the 1/4 as the Motorcycle mags would have us believe.
And their peak Hp number is just that, only a peak number,achieved for a split second or not at all.
Look down the rpm range in the powerband and you find the hp numbers are very low for most sportbikes.
Glen
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Oh yes sir made my day to reflect on it time to time and the mental emotioanl reaction of moderns being shut down by Obsolete motorcycles. I know I can't snap throttle on Peel until I can install an ITT gearbox, but still think Norton drive train can hold up if am careful or tire spins relieves the loads, plus Peel may weight under 350 lb + my 165 lb for pretty light load for drive train to take.
I am half way petrified on X-mass tree launches, but must master it again, so any pointers here or in new subject line would be appreciated. My past P!! dragster would not wheelie d/t the built in nose too low stance, just whiplash injury leaps or tire smoke let downs, especially if tipped any bit off vertical. A real dragster in real traffic can be both terrific and terrorizing.
I am half way petrified on X-mass tree launches, but must master it again, so any pointers here or in new subject line would be appreciated. My past P!! dragster would not wheelie d/t the built in nose too low stance, just whiplash injury leaps or tire smoke let downs, especially if tipped any bit off vertical. A real dragster in real traffic can be both terrific and terrorizing.
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