Head flow testing.

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Yes! Two examples of two strokes and the infamous Motobecane Boost Bottle Balloon Moped.

This was a record setting ride developed by the late John Wayne Gacy; boost bottle ballon moped specialist extraordinaire.

[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyXWHHSATc4[/video]

Motobecane Boost Bottle Balloon Moped - where do you find this stuff?

As far as seeing online for 4 stroke applications; no sir, I choose to remain ignorant. See my post above regarding my ancestory :)
 
Dances with Shrapnel said:
This was a record setting ride developed by the late John Wayne Gacy; boost bottle ballon moped specialist extraordinaire.

Motobecane Boost Bottle Balloon Moped - where do you find this stuff?

As far as seeing online for 4 stroke applications; no sir, I choose to remain ignorant. See my post above regarding my ancestory :)


Funny stuff. Funny stuff.
 
The following pictures show a plaster cast I made of a Norton 850 cylinder head intake tract and combustion chamber (right hand side). The goal was to benchmark this on a flow bench and begin carving and sculpting to test a few port/valve/combustion chamber combinations. We used a steel valve and the valve guide seen in the picture. It pretty closely matched the actual head flow charactersitics but we never got around to testing different scenarios.
Head flow testing.

Note the minimum clearance between the valve spring pocket and wall of the port in the next few pictures; a real constraint to "straightening out" the port.
Head flow testing.

Head flow testing.

Head flow testing.

Head flow testing.

The picture below and the second from the top are the only ones that really show how the intake port aims oblique to the cylinder. Although the intake and exhaust valve stems are in the same plane, the intake port is pointing "tangentially". See how the intake port centerline and intake valve stem are more or less in the same plane as the plaster cast parting line but this parting line is offset from the combustion chamber and exhaust valve centers.

Intuition says this oblique port would promote swirl; some say good and some say not so good, depending on what your goals.
Head flow testing.


This was all put together with blue silicone. A slightly turned down intake valve guide was installed in the intake; no intake valve was used. The cylinder head was lightly lubricated as per instructions, sealed, leveled and the silcone poured and allowed to set. The intake guide was pulled out and the silicone casting pushed out with a very little effort.

A plaster cast was then prepared from the blue silicone cast. One half was cast with indexing dimples and allowed to set. I don't recall what I used as a release agent between the two halves; it could have been something as sophisticated as saran wrap. The toughest parts of the whole thing were getting the blue silicone port height properly indexed to the cylinder head deck and keeping silicone held in place while placing the plaster. The little ring at the bottom of the valve spring pocket is the witness mark from the Norton spring seat cup/washer. The balance of the spring pocket was held open with a plastic film canister.
 
Hi,
I am a bit of a lurker here, have a 69 commando cafe racer/classic racer project that may one day run and hit the roads again.

I spent years porting heads and with R&D for formula fords....

Never really found any way to correlate flow bench with lap times...

What did work, was swirling the inlet ports, much like the nasty looking lean burn things...

Slight loss of top end power, but significant torque increase and pick up from corners.

Mike.
 
Mike,
I would agree with you 100%.
Do you have any pictures of the work you did to swirl the ports? Jim
 
Ok... basically the port is biased heavily to create a swirl, one side is deep bowled and undercut beneath the seat area, the other side has had no material removed apart from casting mark removal.
This picture was taken before I cut the seats, for which I use a Mira 3 angle 30-45-60 with radius up to the 60°.

I did s handful of these heads in the early 80's for formula ford works engines, Johnny Herbert and Ayrton Senna were amongst those who used our engines with these heads.
They lost a little top end, but gained so much low range grunt that the first test driver said he was one gear higher in the chicane.

Downside is the risk for hitting the water jacket and the time it took to do each port.

Once our works engines proved dominant, customers flooded in and got "normal" head porting, the swirl heads were a closely guarded secret.
I did a new one last summer for a guy racing in historic formula ford, who had used a swirl head of mine previously in the 80's.

One thing to add is that generally speaking (regardless of what engine) deep bowls always increase torque and drivers say the engines "feel strong".
They give worse figures on the flow bench, but quicker lap times.

My main pointers:
1. I modify with Deep bowls both on inlet and exhaust ports.
2. Use 1mm inlet and 1.2mm exhaust seat widths, set on the very edge of the valve.
3. Valve guide clearances should be as tight as possible, or the valve won't seal properly, landing off center.*

*Mira showed me a video of a valve missing the seat 1 in 4 times it closed when the guides were worn but within tolerance.

Mike
 
Mike,
Thanks, That helps back up what I have found that seems to work. Too bad it isn't possible to get bowls that deep on a Norton head.
Removing material on the wide side of the port does help. I have done some nice concentric ports that looked great everywhere but on the track. Jim
 
Interesting. Dunstall used to open up the bowl a lot in porting Norton twin heads, trying to re-direct the flow into a straighter shot at the seat. Axtell didn't, claiming it didn't work as well as the original shape. It would be way too easy if everyone agreed on the best way to build an engine.

Ken
 
The problem I have had with making the bowl much deeper is it messes up the angle that the air comes into the bowl as the port still needs to go under the valve spring seat. The whole head just needs to be taller. Jim
 
Maybe Axtell was going for peak power, trying to keep up with xr750s, and Dunstall was going for a different quality of power. I read once that Dunstall stuck with one kind of carburetor that gave a lot of control out of corners. He tried carburetors that gave more ultimate power, but they hurt lap times because his riders could not get out of turns as well with them.

With the angle the Norton intake port hits the chamber, pointing at a tangent to the wall away from the spark plug, would it be best to go with that and bias the bowl away from the spark plug to theoretically get a "whirlpool" going in the chamber?

Maybe that means one cylinder would be more efficient in the northern hemisphere of the planet, then if you rode south of the equator the natural tendency for fluids to switch rotation, like water going down the drain, would make the other cylinder better. :)

Bruce Crower was a bit of a British Bike nut and a thinker. In the 1970's he used to have a column in a magazine where he talked about engine theories.

He talked about spin in the combustion chamber, and how as the piston came up and made the area the mixture was swirling in smaller, that the speed it was swirling at would greatly increase, just as when a figure skater spins their speed increases as they pull their arms and legs closer to themselves, and how this sped up combustion.

Bruce converted a Triumph 650 twin into a two-stroke with a supercharger on it, just for fun.

At the lower engine speeds considered mid-range, maybe the smaller amount of air/fuel is a bit lost and mis-matched to ports made for peak power and does not have the turbulence. So making the port so it induces swirl at lower speeds and is friendly to the slower, smaller charge helps things out, makes sense, as it does that it would clip off the top.

Rick Johnson, the Honda MX superstar of decades past, once had his sponsor rig his open-class bike up with radio telemetry, back when it was a radical thing. They found that he spent very little time using all the power the bike had and WOT, the most time was spent modulating the throttle and using mid-rpms and power trying to get the power to the ground to move the bike forwards. Johnson was not even conscious of how little he had been using WOT before the results were shown to him.

In the early 1960's Edward Bilton-Smith ported the head in his 650cc Norton Manxman out according to directions supplied by P.E. Irving in his classic book Tuning For Speed, which told about hogging out the bowl of the port to bias the flow straighter down into the cylinder and away from the exhaust valve, so that the overlap of the intake and opening events would not interfere with each other as much, Bilton won a road-race championship with an engine using 100% Norton parts inside, carefully massaged, leaving the pack behind right from the start with terrific acceleration that the Norton Manx r bikes etc. he was running against did not have.

Lastly, of course Smokey Yunick said it was very important for flow(did not say anything about swirl), if possible, to get the bowl as parallel as possible with the valve stem for at least the last half-inch before the valve seat(two-valve wedge chamber). He said that a crooked bowl, if the velocity was high enough would invade the still-air cone that sat on the valve and really hurt flow. Maybe at low velocity in the mid-range you can balance things with a bowl that is crooked enough to give swirl and flow at medium velocity, but on the top end it comes back , disrupts the still-air cone and clips off the top.

Tricky stuff.
 
Totally agree....

Wasn't Smokey Yunik a flow bench hater, and then built his own with an electric motor to drive the engine around?

I read just about everything Smokey published when I was learning my trade, and after years of doing it his way, punctuated by expensive and time consuming R&D projects... finally 30 years later I just believe that Smokey really knew his stuff.

The other things we learned along the way are pretty crazy!

Renault laser drilling tiny holes (ports) between adjacent cylinder bores to help ring seal and the piston upwards.... Madness.. but hey, what do Renault know about race engines? ;-)
 
conkers said:
Totally agree....

Wasn't Smokey Yunik a flow bench hater, and then built his own with an electric motor to drive the engine around?

I read just about everything Smokey published when I was learning my trade, and after years of doing it his way, punctuated by expensive and time consuming R&D projects... finally 30 years later I just believe that Smokey really knew his stuff.

The other things we learned along the way are pretty crazy!

Renault laser drilling tiny holes (ports) between adjacent cylinder bores to help ring seal and the piston upwards.... Madness.. but hey, what do Renault know about race engines? ;-)

Smokey is number 1 in my book. He had the ability to sort through the bull and come out a winner. Of course Joe Mondello and Gordon Jennings were right up there also. And of course to keep it all together Carroll Smith deserves honorable mention. Jim
 
Sir Eddie posts here time to time usually in the Other Cycle section. He's creeping up on his 11,000 rpm land speed 500 twin.

At TDC what stifles the swirl more than anything is the mixture suddenly gets so dense its viscosity gets honey like stagnant. The next thing is stuff in the way like piston crown shape and chamber shape. Swirl is more effective than tumble at mixing and staying in motion the most near TDC. Combustion is better to focus more near the exhaust valve. Thene squish gap helps spray/jet more motion to mix flame front like smacking piston to TDC with grease in the tights. 2 Valves considered a bit better than standard 4 valve at lower rpms d/t more swirl vs tubmle, unless the 4 valve intakes are staggered in size or opening to bias for more swirl than tumble, then better than most 2 valves across the whole range.

The Norton heads blasts a thumb size area cleaner on the medial wall between the valves. If the blast hit a trip lip or groove before the blast hit surface it might deflect more onto exhaust to cool it and burn quicker.
 
Head flow testing.

A SB Chevy's intake port has a natural tendency to swirl because most of the flow takes place on the cylinder wall side of the port. As a result, most of the air enters the cylinder on the 'A' side of the valve and continues in the direction indicated by the arrows. Read more: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/engine ... z1pGGIJpYi



Head flow testing.

SB Ford heads typically lack swirl because most of the air tends to flow on the cylinder center side of the port and dumps straight into the cylinder. To boost the ports swirl capability you need to get the air to stick to the outside wall better so more flow occurs along the path indicated by the arrows. Making as smooth a radius of the dog leg as shown here helps.

Read more: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/engine ... z1pGGTWoGy
 
beng said:
Maybe that means one cylinder would be more efficient in the northern hemisphere of the planet, then if you rode south of the equator the natural tendency for fluids to switch rotation, like water going down the drain, would make the other cylinder better. :)

Tricky stuff.

So, did anybody ever put this to the test on a port flow bench :?:
 
Hi, it appears that the coriolis effect have in fact no effect whatever the hemisphere regarding the flow in your drain .....it's a tale.
 
marinatlas said:
Hi, it appears that the coriolis effect have in fact no effect whatever the hemisphere regarding the flow in your drain .....it's a tale.

Head flow testing.


Perhaps but I caught this Australian taking a leak in a nearby bar once...

Needless to say I didn't check the swirl.
 
Nah he's not from OZ, by the looks he's from NZ and in other words, thats a Kee Wee!
Foxy :mrgreen:
 
Foxy said:
Nah he's not from OZ, by the looks he's from NZ and in other words, thats a Kee Wee!
Foxy :mrgreen:

Might have been, I have no idea how you tell each other apart.
 
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