has anybody installed that hydralic clutch kit

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Hydraulics give no warning to leaks I found out so sight glasses on Peel and check Trixie brake almost as often as oil tank and gas. She goes through cycles of leakage at bar end. New parts don't fix but Hylomar does a yr of so. I may yet get bored with the cable and buy a matching UFO hydraulic set to work the Norton business end.
 
Matt,
Cash flow has finally allowed me to place an order for the Hydraulic Clutch kit from you. I also placed an order for a pair of the Brembo / Lucas switchgear adapters.
Quick question... does the kit come with the black or polished alloy lever?

JD

p.s. now in conservative discretionary spending mode for a Corbin seat and Smith electronic instruments....hopefully by July / Aug. :)
 
Jeff,

You can get either a polished or a black lever. If you currently have a polished lever for the Brembo brake master cylinder, I can send you two black levers if you like that look.

Thanks

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

www.coloradonortonworks.com
 
I've just had my primary apart to renew the main engine seal. Part of the process was washing the clutch parts, and resetting the clutch adjustment. I rode it last night for the first time and was surprised how light the clutch was. Considering it would have had a thorough cleaning while being driven, because of the excess oil build up from the engine, it wasn't that bad in the first place but it has definitely become freer. ie no sign of clutch drag now. The plates are reasonably worn but not totalled yet.
IMOP I am happy to stay with the cable clutch. [ I now have a spare cable set up alongside my other one now because of the distances I drive. The bottom end of which is surrounded by a plugged plastic tube and secured with insulation tape both ends ]
Dereck
 
The stock clutch can be an easy two-finger operation if it's set up per the Norton shop manual. If you have a Commando with a heavy clutch, then you have too much clearance in the clutch basket. I'm not suggesting that a Hyd clutch cyl is a bad idea but if you are thinking you need it to preclude a hard-to-pull lever, that's not the case. OTOH, you can set up the stock clutch badly where it would be very difficult to pull the lever and adding a hYd actuator will make it easy. So in that sense, the hyd system makes the clutch setup not critical. But the cable-operated clutch lever pull on my Commando is lighter than the HYD clutch actuator was on any of my Ducati's.

If the clutch is set properly, it is really unlikely you could break a cable because there isn't really much tension on it. I have never broken a clutch cable in more years of riding than I care to admit to...Let's just say from before that bike in my avatar was made... :)

I'm sitting on the first year Honda 350 Scrambler... ;)
 
Mike is so right. A hyd clutch is no fix for a poor functioning cable clutch action.

The clutch system on the Norton is designed for a cable. A Hydralic unit could easilly mask an issue of which a cable actuating action would convey, like hard to pull. When cables break, it's rarely because they are pinched or wore out, it is usually because some entity of the clutch has worn and needs to be evaluated and brought back to spec.

Get the clutch operating as it should, then add the hydralic unit if you still feel you WANT to but you should never really NEED to add the hyd. thingy.
 
pete.v said:
Mike is so right. A hyd clutch is no fix for a poor functioning cable clutch action.

The clutch system on the Norton is designed for a cable. A Hydralic unit could easilly mask an issue of which a cable actuating action would convey, like hard to pull. When cables break, it's rarely because they are pinched or wore out, it is usually because some entity of the clutch has worn and needs to be evaluated and brought back to spec.

Get the clutch operating as it should, then add the hydralic unit if you still feel you WANT to but you should never really NEED to add the hyd. thingy.
Click to expand...

A hydraulic clutch does not mask a poor stack height. The hydraulic clutch becomes stiff just like a cable clutch does when it's not set up right.

[it just doesn't break the cable when the stack height is wrong] Jim
 
pete.v said:
add the hydralic unit if you still feel you WANT to but you should never really NEED to add the hyd. thingy.
Click to expand...

How is different than any upgrade or modification for the Commando ? We could just all build these to 100% bone stock machines and deal with all the shortcomings and idiosyncrasies they had when new.

Nothing wrong with the stock approach if that's what you like but I can tell you this, there would be a whole lot less of us, enjoying these machines, if the upgrades weren't made available.

Let me ask you this. Have you rode a Commando with a Hydraulic clutch ? If not, then your opinion is extremely subjective since you are just basing it on the experience you have with a cable clutch. Ride a bike with the hydraulic clutch installed and then your feedback will be more objective since you will really understand the difference between the two systems. Who knows....you may even like the advantages of the hydraulic clutch

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com
 
comnoz said:
pete.v said:
Mike is so right. A hyd clutch is no fix for a poor functioning cable clutch action.

The clutch system on the Norton is designed for a cable. A Hydralic unit could easilly mask an issue of which a cable actuating action would convey, like hard to pull. When cables break, it's rarely because they are pinched or wore out, it is usually because some entity of the clutch has worn and needs to be evaluated and brought back to spec.

Get the clutch operating as it should, then add the hydralic unit if you still feel you WANT to but you should never really NEED to add the hyd. thingy.
Click to expand...

A hydraulic clutch does not mask a poor stack height. The hydraulic clutch becomes stiff just like a cable clutch does when it's not set up right.

[it just doesn't break the cable when the stack height is wrong] Jim
Click to expand...

That is good to know, Jim
 
CNW said:
pete.v said:
add the hydralic unit if you still feel you WANT to but you should never really NEED to add the hyd. thingy.
Click to expand...

How is different than any upgrade or modification for the Commando ? We could just all build these to 100% bone stock machines and deal with all the shortcomings and idiosyncrasies they had when new.

I can tell you this. There would be a whole lot less of us, enjoying these machines, if the upgrades weren't made available.

Let me ask you this. Have you rode a Commando with a Hydraulic clutch ? If not, then your opinion is extremely subjective since you are just basing it on the experience you have with a cable clutch. Ride a bike with the hydraulic clutch installed and then your feedback will be more objective since you will really understand the difference between the two systems.

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com
Click to expand...
I have driven many bikes, some with hydraulic clutch (Ducatis' BMWs'), some, obviously, without. I will say this, a properly adjusted Commando clutch is as smooth, responsive, positive feel, 1 finger pull (2 if the arthritis is flaring up) as any hydraulic clutch I have used.

I never said that your, or any other hyd. system, is bad, only that it should not be used as a "fix", as I am afraid some may do. Do you agree with this? Jim has made it clear to me that feedback to a maladjusted clutch would be provided by the hydraulic system as well, assumable not as pronounced but feedback none the less, so that part I retract.

Matt, you are one of many here I truly do not want to piss off. I admire and respect what you do. Your mods are awesome and at risk of sounding like a purest (yuck) my opinion is that "going all out" might sometimes be just too much. Your bikes are works of functional art but for many of us they are simply, excuse the expression, unapproachable.

My bike has many mods, particularly when safety is concerned. It is basically a stage 1 street rod and there is nothing that has not been gone over to support safe function and longevity. Some have a hard time answering the subjective question of "where do I stop". I have stopped! Although it took many years to get there, I have fulfilled "My" ultimate Norton dream. Now it's just a matter maintaining integrity.

That being said, if you would like to offer said unit to me as a test bed, I promise to offer you, and the membership at large, a solid honest opinion to the difference or the lack there of. I will even kick in for shipping.

I realize I have gone over the top here, but at least you can understand what I am saying.

Apologetically yours,
Peter
 
Pete,
Jim may have said that a hydraulic clutch was no cure for a maladjusted clutch, but he also said (on here) that the hydraulic kit offers a smoother and lighter clutch than a cable in any given 'like for like' set up. Something I hope is true as I am about to fit one to mine!
Will report my own findings as soon as.
 
Nigel, what state is your clutch mechanism in at present, for example I imagine you have the stack height set correctly, but do you have a Venhill Featherlight cable installed? It would be nice to compare the hydraulic to a cable system with Venhill and a correctly setup clutch. For years I ignored my horribly stiff standard cable ,wrong stack height clutch then finally changed to a Venhill. Before making the change, I lubed the old standard cable, reinstalled it and measure lever pull with a spring scale. It took 24 pounds pull to move the lever. Kind of like one of those forearm/wrist builder squeezee things we had as young teenagers!
Just by changing from the regular cable to the Teflon lined Venhill dropped the required pull to 17 pounds, then correcting the stack height brought the pull down to 7 pounds, which can be done with one finger, and still no clutch slippage. The Teflon liner/stainless cable combo also seems to make the clutch smoother to release. In any case it is as smooth and progressive as one could ask for, I don't even think about it when using it, though I don't doubt the hydraulic could improve on this yet a bit more.

The hydraulic clutch has other advantages as well. The clutch on a hotrodded bike may need the diagphram set a little stiffer than a stocker, then the reduced pull with the hydraulic would be useful. For a stocker like mine with a one finger clutch, maybe the hydraulic clutch is down the "to do" list a bit.

Could you measure clutch lever pull with a spring scale before and after fitting the hydraulic clutch?

Glen
 
Keep in mind that there have been three different diaphragms made over the years that range from light to heavy. I don't know of any way to tell which is which by looking.

The best operation is going to be found when the diaphragm is slightly concave when the clutch lever is at rest and slightly convex when the lever is pulled. This will not only give the best feel but also the highest holding pressure. Ideally the clutch should be just engaging when the diaphragm is flat.

One of the pluses of the hydraulic clutch is the broadened area of engagement due to the fact that the steep ramp that was built into the stock cam is no longer needed to make for a reasonable clutch pull. Jim
 
Is it just me that see's hydraulics mainly to avoid long travel lugging an extra clutch cable routed next to the wearing out active one? What's wrong if just switching to hydraulic clutch eases a riders effort to clutch leaving the rest of otherwise imperfect clutch as is?
 
pete.v said:
CNW said:
pete.v said:
add the hydralic unit if you still feel you WANT to but you should never really NEED to add the hyd. thingy.
Click to expand...

How is different than any upgrade or modification for the Commando ? We could just all build these to 100% bone stock machines and deal with all the shortcomings and idiosyncrasies they had when new.

I can tell you this. There would be a whole lot less of us, enjoying these machines, if the upgrades weren't made available.

Let me ask you this. Have you rode a Commando with a Hydraulic clutch ? If not, then your opinion is extremely subjective since you are just basing it on the experience you have with a cable clutch. Ride a bike with the hydraulic clutch installed and then your feedback will be more objective since you will really understand the difference between the two systems.

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com
Click to expand...
I have driven many bikes, some with hydraulic clutch (Ducatis' BMWs'), some, obviously, without. I will say this, a properly adjusted Commando clutch is as smooth, responsive, positive feel, 1 finger pull (2 if the arthritis is flaring up) as any hydraulic clutch I have used.

I never said that your, or any other hyd. system, is bad, only that it should not be used as a "fix", as I am afraid some may do. Do you agree with this? Jim has made it clear to me that feedback to a maladjusted clutch would be provided by the hydraulic system as well, assumable not as pronounced but feedback none the less, so that part I retract.

Matt, you are one of many here I truly do not want to piss off. I admire and respect what you do. Your mods are awesome and at risk of sounding like a purest (yuck) my opinion is that "going all out" might sometimes be just too much. Your bikes are works of functional art but for many of us they are simply, excuse the expression, unapproachable.

My bike has many mods, particularly when safety is concerned. It is basically a stage 1 street rod and there is nothing that has not been gone over to support safe function and longevity. Some have a hard time answering the subjective question of "where do I stop". I have stopped! Although it took many years to get there, I have fulfilled "My" ultimate Norton dream. Now it's just a matter maintaining integrity.

That being said, if you would like to offer said unit to me as a test bed, I promise to offer you, and the membership at large, a solid honest opinion to the difference or the lack there of. I will even kick in for shipping.

I realize I have gone over the top here, but at least you can understand what I am saying.

Apologetically yours,
Peter
Click to expand...

You are certainly not 'rattling my cage' and don't need to apologize. You have your opinion, and I have mine...nothing wrong with them being different. I base mine on a direct comparison between the two systems and I think you would look at it differently if you had a chance to use a hydraulic clutch on a Commando. Can't compare it to similar systems on different machines as there is a whole lot that plays part of how a bike feels, other than just one specific piece of equipment

I personally feel that the clutch is one of the best and most usable upgrades that Jim C. has developed. The feedback I have got from customers support that claim.

Unfortunately I am not in a position to help you out with your test bed request. There would be a long line of people that would volunteer to test equipment if that was made available. Having said that, there are many members on this forum that have in fact installed the kit and offer opinions based on their experience, so the unbiased feedback is already available.

You say you have 'stopped' as far as modifying your Commando. That's fine but there is nothing wrong with keeping your options open as you really don't know what will become available in a year or two and there may very well be something else that you will want to add to your ride. To me personally, these bikes are never done and that is part of the drive and excitement to push forward

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com
 
CNW said:
[You say you have 'stopped' as far as modifying your Commando. That's fine but there is nothing wrong with keeping your options open as you really don't know what will become available in a year or two and there may very well be something else that you will want to add to your ride.
Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com
Click to expand...

I do agree with you there, Matt. I am sure many will contest, It's not easy being satisfied, as far as Norton is concerned.

I seriously concidered the clutch upgrade but i have a MKIII switch gear incorporated on to my 72 so it is not just the hyd. clutch I would have to budget for and having a very functional clutch, it just does not make sence for me, but i am always tempted.

Matt, I think it's a real bucket list contender to be able to someday motor out there to meet you and Jim Comstock and volunteer over your parts washer for a month or so just to soak up through osmosis whatever the mood is around there. I lived in Nederland/Rollinsville at the east portal for a few years so I am familure to the godliness of the invironment. Add a Norton shop to the equation and.......well.....there you have it. I have no words for it!

Cheers,

stuck in good ole GR,
Peter
 
Well I got my CNW clutch nailed on.

Was easy to fit, and surprisingly easy to bleed, especially if one actually reads the very clear instructions provided!

Due to past injury, my clutch hand loses strength after a while, so long rides can be a real pain. The hydraulic clutch is definitely lighter (sorry Glen, but I didn't actually measure it) and has a much nicer feel.

You can tell something is right whe this happens: I went out to test it, and forgot all about it and just enjoyed the ride!

Money well spent.
 
I own a CNW build with hyd clutch. I also own 3 other Commandos with cable clutches. The hyd clutch, IMHO, is much easier on my hand. The cable clutches are great and they work great on the 3 other Commandos.

I was riding my Interstate (cable clutch) in the Georgia Mountains when I went through a small, tourist attraction town. The traffic was horrendous, and the stop and go traffic lasted about 45 minutes. I had to pull over and rest my hand, because the stop and go traffic was causing a cramp in my clutch hand. The next week I ordered up CNW;s hyd clutch kit. No problems now with stop and go traffic

John
 
If I'm not mistaken another check mark on the + side is that th hyd. clutch doesn't degrade with clutch wear like cables will with their locked down adjusters. They continue to engage the clutch fully without needing adjustment even as the stack wears down.
 
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