Forks Bottoming and topping out, cure?

I had to make an emergency trip into THE ditch and managed to keep it upright, but barely. The rough trip caused terrible metal to metal sounds from the forks. I've got 20w fork oil in them, but I'm used to dirt bikes wih forks that could have absorbed the jolts easily. What's the best way to improve fork action at the extreme? It would sure be a lot safer.
Jaydee

jaydee75 said:

...but I'm used to dirt bikes wih forks that could have absorbed the jolts easily. What's the best way to improve fork action at the extreme? It would sure be a lot safer.
Jaydee

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With a limited amount of travel, there's only so much that can be done. Except in Hobot's case, they were never intended for anything more than uneven road surfaces. If you were to try to modify valving, spring rates, and end stops to "absorb" bigger transitions, you'd find them to be so harsh over "regular" road surfaces that you'd swear you were riding with no suspension.
Unless you swap front and rear for longer travel suspension, you get what you get. 'Might as well go the dual-sport route in that case. Keep in mind that increasing the travel will adversely affect the bike's geometry under extreme maneuvers, which is why even modern sport bikes don't have a great deal of suspension travel.
Updating the fork internals and using upgraded rear shocks will help on the road, but we're still stuck with the limiting factor of the miniscule travel. With that being said, there's a couple of mods and/or fork internal upgrades that have been spoken of in these hallowed pages, if' you'll do a bit of searching. I modded mine as spoken of at http://www.nocnsw.org.au/technical/norton-roadholders (Covenant mod), and it does help at top and bottom. The most disturbing thing for me that it got rid of was the unsettling metallic "clank" when jerking it up onto the center stand. As I was rebuilding my forks at the time, I used the old top bushings with the step cut off to act as top stops. You can always buy them outright at http://www.rgmnorton.co.uk/buy/extra-lo ... g_2298.htm if you're not as cheap as me.
You can always swap out the entire guts with the Lansdowne kit. No personal experience, but you can search using that name.
I'm relieved to hear you and the bike came out unscathed!

Nathan

Here are a couple fine solutions.

http://www.cosentinoengineering.com/ind ... age450.htm

http://lansdowne-engineering.co.uk/three_3.html

pete.v said:

http://www.cosentinoengineering.com/ind ... age450.htm

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I may have to get me some of thems!

jaydee75 said:

I had to make an emergency trip into THE ditch and managed to keep it upright, but barely. The rough trip caused terrible metal to metal sounds from the forks. I've got 20w fork oil in them, but I'm used to dirt bikes wih forks that could have absorbed the jolts easily. What's the best way to improve fork action at the extreme? It would sure be a lot safer.
Jaydee

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Stay on the f;;;;;g road.

hobot Roadholders are made to ride creek beds with foot high ledges, skull size rocks or BANG though gofer holes at hwy speed and hit stumps and roots about running speed to get some adrenalin thrills they just don't provide me in the famous Ozark Mt twisties. Still Roadholders though so of course how good can that be compared to everything else attempted. Consider what the P11 desert racers used too.

The Fauth fork mod will eliminate the problem AND provide much improved action. I'm sure other mods will as well but I was quite pleased with it when I made that mod. http://decentcycles.com/how-to/95-fauth ... cation-kit

Nater_Potater said:

pete.v said:

http://www.cosentinoengineering.com/ind ... age450.htm

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I may have to get me some of thems!

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It just so happens that I ordered the Cosentino Fork Upgrade yesterday. Takes about two weeks to build them. Also ordered Works Performance Steel Tracker rear shocks. All for my 72 Commando.

Off road use? No amount of mods will produce BMW Gs type handling...the problem lies with the the spring that sets the travel...approx 4.5 inchs before coil bound. Modern forks are only 3-4 inchs.
Guys in the past who dirt raced who rode Roadholders where rough and tumble MEN! who did'int have any option ..they ignored the forks clanking about.
My Lansdowne kit in its third style will prevent the Clonk ,and will have some adjustment for Normal road use..on the road John Dunn [NOC tec adviser] found the kit excellent..almost 400 sold world wide..
cheap bandage fix...sae 50 grade oil!

All's I know is I've gotten to try dirt - MX - trial bikes that various owners settled on for their needs around here, farm work on rolling sea of steep rough pasture, leaping off under cut ravine drops [fast enough not to hi center and leap out enough not to be flipped on nose a bike length down, to Gravel path semi flat tracking skiing and prefer my 6" travel quad spring rate Roadholders over all of them for my style of peg standing scrambles through the brambles. May be better more expensive complex fork option of course but don't think anyone has not appreciated the base line improvement to want money back from Greg. He's refined the kit features but I may the only one that's made it progressive dampening. Can set sag to factory but loose the off road impact comfort but will not feel jar/noise on bottoming just bounce back like hitting a hard inflated tire with a hammer rather than an anvil. Oh yeah if keeping the extra lift and much stronger last 1/2" of valve spring allows rather further leans w/o fouling and more engine thrush lifting front mass but still planting front to be effective at sharper lighter steering angles. You do need to lose the street tires to get very much off the beaten path though. More than the forks for running roughness is fitting a 21" front wheel but then the real road racing can suffer.

photo sites are places possible to put a stand down not the both hands on bars peg standing jouncing and mostly winning grinning. I gave up on SuVee off road for obvious reasons...





Tall brush low enough here to take a picture, hides harvested foot high tree stumps and longs and stones and holes and lips and woopty doo's and garantee could take it faster that the shocked deer shitting reflexly as they bounded away from Peel baring down on em zig zaging chasing them till leaping over fences and tree falls .., One stump did flip me side ways off one frame rail hi centering when going to slow to just break thought its somewhat rotten condition. Norton sold skip plates for Commandos for gosh sakes am I the only one that appreciates them?

BTW I can abolutely assure everyone that the extra 2"+ extension that reduces bush over lap leverage stability is a total non issue to strike stuff at high way speed with them fully extended as they are so easy-fast to compress no way can ya begin to hardlly load them before they compress back to more robust geometry. BUTT Peel forks got tested beyond that by striking gopher hole about 55-60 on up hill pasture blast to get tire at least axle deep in it to blash dirt and grass root sod hunks out in an explosion of crap her momentum carried right though and launched rear off the lip to start nose down rotation as we were lofted a few few in air to land me and bike mass on it about 50 mph by then, which slammed my helmet into bars/clocks loudly but she just uncannty rebounded self corrected and we carried on like nothing to it, ugh. Another test was arriving at a friend after hot dogging the twisties so warmed up for something actually scary decided to just run up a 6 ft all embankment that looked like a flat grassy landing at top from my view down below to hit it about 25 mph get about 2 ft above it to land a bit nose down with tire going into a hidden drainage wash out trough that stopped us sharp into a stoppie that also slammed face into clocks but still in gear and too shocked to clutch just mildly roared up out in a slight wheelie then slowed before runing off the elevated area. If its level and smooth in Ozarks it got a roof over it. I only want to experience it fully on my Roadholders thank you.

hobot said:

BTW I can abolutely assure everyone that the extra 2"+ extension that reduces bush over lap leverage stability is a total non issue to strike stuff at high way speed with them fully extended as they are so easy-fast to compress no way can ya begin to hardlly load them before they compress back to more robust geometry. BUTT Peel forks got tested beyond that by striking gopher hole about 55-60 on up hill pasture blast to get tire at least axle deep in it to blash dirt and grass root sod hunks out in an explosion of crap her momentum carried right though and launched rear off the lip to start nose down rotation as we were lofted a few few in air to land me and bike mass on it about 50 mph by then, which slammed my helmet into bars/clocks loudly but she just uncannty rebounded self corrected and we carried on like nothing to it, ugh. Another test was arriving at a friend after hot dogging the twisties so warmed up for something actually scary decided to just run up a 6 ft all embankment that looked like a flat grassy landing at top from my view down below to hit it about 25 mph get about 2 ft above it to land a bit nose down with tire going into a hidden drainage wash out trough that stopped us sharp into a stoppie that also slammed face into clocks but still in gear and too shocked to clutch just mildly roared up out in a slight wheelie then slowed before runing off the elevated area. If its level and smooth in Ozarks it got a roof over it. I only want to experience it fully on my Roadholders thank you.

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I did that drainage ditch thingy and the front wheel stuck there and the back came over and threw me into the ground. Not fun Hobot. You were lucky you only got slammed into the bars.

I did that drainage ditch thingy and the front wheel stuck there and the back came over and threw me into the ground. Not fun Hobot. You were lucky you only got slammed into the bars.

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Yes I am too aware I and others are only here and even functional by pure luck alone. Every now and then like today I flashed back on what should of happened on my 1st ever Norton ride when P!! 2nd coil kicked in. I see the ones that broke spine and exploded organs and lost limbs from cycle crashes. My first best buddy cub scout days got killed at age 14 falling off cycle acting up and got head run over. I had to face knowing I was going to have to crash a bunch more times before I learned the tricks of fate so decided I like being crazy better than uneventful sane. In many sports its said if ya ain't falling then ya ain't really trying but mostly its just luck of the draw in over sight or fate taking ya down. If ya ride ya give up a great bit of full control over life. Anywho Peel is meant as last dream machine to trash and pick fights with super bikes but doing it with essentially 4 decade old technology. I have no desires to take any cycle off pavement anymore but Ms Peel made for it. I know I'll crash again regardless of why.

hobot said:

I did that drainage ditch thingy and the front wheel stuck there and the back came over and threw me into the ground. Not fun Hobot. You were lucky you only got slammed into the bars.

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Yes I am too aware I and others are only here and even functional by pure luck alone. Every now and then like today I flashed back on what should of happened on my 1st ever Norton ride when P!! 2nd coil kicked in. I see the ones that broke spine and exploded organs and lost limbs from cycle crashes. My first best buddy cub scout days got killed at age 14 falling off cycle acting up and got head run over. I had to face knowing I was going to have to crash a bunch more times before I learned the tricks of fate so decided I like being crazy better than uneventful sane. In many sports its said if ya ain't falling then ya ain't really trying but mostly its just luck of the draw in over sight or fate taking ya down. If ya ride ya give up a great bit of full control over life. Anywho Peel is meant as last dream machine to trash and pick fights with super bikes but doing it with essentially 4 decade old technology. I have no desires to take any cycle off pavement anymore but Ms Peel made for it. I know I'll crash again regardless of why.

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Yes we are at risk every time we ride. I think it is part of the allure. I've been down a number of times. Some crashes years ago I am paying for today with docs putting plates and screws in my body to hold it together. Today I think more than I did back then. That can be good and bad, but it's the only way I can do it now.

The Commando pictures look a bit PR, there is no sludge or even water on it, ie. pushed gently into 2 inchs of water for a snap :lol: Show us the flatened silencer,the caved in tank, the busted head lamp?

You betchya I was timid picking a place to get a sample photo. A lot of the real off road stuff has to be taken at some speed or can't climb or blast over the obstacles. Thank goodness Ms Peel generally landed on me to protect her stuff or on thick enough brush or soft deep enough pasture soil I could usually pick up and limp or drag away. I don't abandon ship in storms but its crazy fear state to fight out of control events knowing if I didn't win the hi side or impact would be worst than just letting go. Most the time like Denis its too much too quick to even react to = SPLAT. Greg has sold couple hundered+ of his fork kit [enough its strained world wide supply of tractor valve springs, so price went up] - just not to many socially active online, to hear them say they look for pot holes and speed bumps to hit in different ways because its so uncanny not to feel much so sense of superman joy to repeat when possible.

One crash event was caused by too much 1st gear to 60 use against the wheelie limited sports bike aiming into same narrow turn, on my return home slowed to 12-ish mph to lean to turn into drive way across cattle grate but road grader had fluffed up the loose Gravel and made a big berm so I was not on any power turning just using mild engine drag to ease turn but popped out of 1st so we speeded up on the down slope which made me run up on the berm some but front slipped out low siding Peels mass on my pelvis which fractured my fussed L5/S1 vertebrae but was actually happy as it saved the brand new $500 tank paint. It took me 9 mo to walk upright like a man again but congential fault regrew a functional joint and eliminated 55 yrs of stiff low back that no DC could move but now don't even know I got a low back condition. I know a thing or two about spinal repair so didn't do a thing where only apparent injury was - sorta of like everyone thinking if forks act up that's where to fix it. After 3 days only being able to crawl I was getting pissed/depressed - till my decades of neurology made me wonder how I'd injured my neck brain stem though felt fine above low back, looked over brand new helmet to see very top had a chip out the new gel coat, AH AH! on impact to of my head had hit THE Gravel too, which hit the posterior spinal tracks that go to the low back, so put all effort on neck traction and now way better than a stupid youngster. Didn't need pain drugs, just lots of mineral complex and enzymes and magnets. I could ride again by 3 wks as Ms Peel was so smooth and secure - after replacing the crumbled 1st gear bush. I could work ok as long as remained bent over in squatted worship posture of Commando.

Not suprised ...those rear box's look to good to throw down in some gravel pit. Just use the bike for cafe stops and admouration.

Hey John, I'm out for blood just not mine or yours so don't matter to me what fork allows it working out the best. Peel was set up for constant use and hard bags were great to just toss stuff in out of wind, sun or rain instead of strapping and covering up. Peel was secure enough on the cleaty tires and lifted front so dropping into spring branch was just a bit of icing after a holiday road run - back before deer and police got thicker so basically ran what ever speed I liked in the low traffic secondary hyws. I kept Trixie bone stock, one reason being to compare it and Peel. I tired Trixie on pasture, then the creek but about got wiped out by suspension jarring wiggle into fork slams and street tires to have sworn off that as well as risking road turns and Hinge onset. If I lift Trixie by bars she clanks on underside of damper cap and hammer on anvil to bottom on pot hole and rock knobs on mild Gravel roads. Would be extra good if your two way damper innovation could adapt to full travel and I'd likely be 1st to brag on it saving my ass some more on Peel. Oh yeah the Bates bags got wiped out on two upside down drops one after the other, tops were crushed not the sides much - so you are right I need spares on hand in my world. Next Peels hard bags are robust composite with double row of chrome tubes in braced armor I'll put used tire sections in gaps to take the grinds w/o hurting the chrome. Stunt riding and raw off road is what I want Peel to be handiest at.

Steve , you destroyed those super box's?

Ugh, John, triple destruction to those now even rarer Bates lighweight art deco bags after ~6 mo use. Crush injury 2x's completely upside down tires straight up in air from 5-6 ft up with me barely out the way in time, then some years later saving them for their supports saved my shop form a fire up a wall they happened to be next too. 30 miles in stop go big city traffic in rain fooled me so broken rear axle was the real underlying cause and dead lines to meet from 1000 miles away. I don't have that much riding time last 15 yr d/to crashes and blow up so got a lot to learn on riding yet. But at least never lost it rushing turns - so far. i have photos of them crushed and still mounted with Peel on low trailer back at home but not something I care to see again.