Fitting front fender stays to fender - not a good fit, are alterations to fit common?

Jdub · Feb 4, 2023

I have a front fender (06.3175) and fender stays (06.2323) both from AN so would not expect bad work. Went to fit the stays and found that the bends do not match the fender. Is it common to get the center arc in alignment with the inside of the fender first, and then fit the arms to their proper place at the fork ends by bending? I do not want to damage the fender but instead want the arms in nice alignment, both to the arc of the inner fender and then to each side of the fork before I bolt this thing together tight. Thanks for any experience.

marinatlas · Feb 5, 2023

Hi , I am sorry about but all those stays need always some fettling , never found one which fit , most of the time the corresponding holes did not align (fender vs stay ) , so need to drill or file and bend !

B+Bogus · Feb 5, 2023

The stay looks like an early 06.0619 (pre '71) fitment where a 3.00 x 19" front tyre was specified, and the mudguard is clearly a later type.
The rolled edge of the mudguard should sit comfortably in the inward kink of the stay
The Wassells stainless ones fit the later mudguards with no modifications, as should genuine ones.

Don't do anything until you've contacted A-N. They're very helpful people, and I'd suggest that they need to see this.

Fast Eddie · Feb 5, 2023

B+Bogus said:
The stay looks like an early 06.0619 (pre '71) fitment where a 3.00 x 19" front tyre was specified, and the mudguard is clearly a later type.
The rolled edge of the mudguard should sit comfortably in the inward kink of the stay
The Wassells stainless ones fit the later mudguards with no modifications, as should genuine ones.

Don't do anything until you've contacted A-N. They're very helpful people, and I'd suggest that they need to see this.

My thoughts exactly.

Jdub, what wheels and tyres are you going to run?

If you’re thinking something like a 100/90 19 Roadrider or similar, I very much doubt it’d fit inside that stay.

B+Bogus · Feb 5, 2023

Fast Eddie said:
My thoughts exactly.

Jdub, what wheels and tyres are you going to run?

If you’re thinking something like a 100/90 19 Roadrider or similar, I very much doubt it’d fit inside that stay.

Agreed - the early setup isn't very friendly to anything bigger than the factory recommended fitment.

concours · Feb 5, 2023

Jdub said:
I have a front fender (06.3175) and fender stays (06.2323) both from AN so would not expect bad work. Went to fit the stays and found that the bends do not match the fender. Is it common to get the center arc in alignment with the inside of the fender first, and then fit the arms to their proper place at the fork ends by bending? I do not want to damage the fender but instead want the arms in nice alignment, both to the arc of the inner fender and then to each side of the fork before I bolt this thing together tight. Thanks for any experience.

View attachment 103472

That's WAY off, don't bother trying to adjust the radius, the developed length between the hard bends is too short.
The theory that it fits an earlier narrow fender sounds logical.

YING · Feb 5, 2023

John,
I just went and looked at mine and where the stay hits the fender the arc matches nicely.
Mike

marshg246 · Feb 5, 2023

Jdub said:
I have a front fender (06.3175) and fender stays (06.2323) both from AN so would not expect bad work. Went to fit the stays and found that the bends do not match the fender. Is it common to get the center arc in alignment with the inside of the fender first, and then fit the arms to their proper place at the fork ends by bending? I do not want to damage the fender but instead want the arms in nice alignment, both to the arc of the inner fender and then to each side of the fork before I bolt this thing together tight. Thanks for any experience.

View attachment 103472

Although AN parts are normally about perfect, the recent front fenders are not. If you look from the side, you'll see that the radius changes in front of the forks.

I bought a set of stays and a fender at the same time and had to add spacers at the front and rear and that only worked after elongating the holes in the center support - the fender was too high. I also had to reform the bends in the stay but I consider that part normal - comparing the new stays to originals shows the stays to be correct otherwise.

mdt-son · Feb 5, 2023

I am also looking for a fender (mudguard), bridge and stays for my Mk3 build. Perhaps we could have some checking dimensions off a genuine mudguard?
For instance, what is the mudguard's chord length and the perimeter of the circle segment, assuming constant radius?
A sketch of the stays would be great. Pre-Mk3 models had identical stays top and bottom (062323), indicating the blade's radius is constant.

- Knut

Interbak · Feb 5, 2023

The problem here looks like you have an 850 pattern stainless fender with 750 pattern stay. The later stainless fenders have a wider D profile as compared to the earlier ‘71/72 round chrome fender profile. Andover lists the same part numbers for 750 and 850, which is definitely wrong, I’ll have to check the numbers in my original parts books. To my knowledge, nobody is making a proper round chrome fender for the front or rear. I was lucky enough to find a very good original front at the fall swap meet last year. Went and checked, the 750 parts book shows fender as 06-2328, here’s a pic of how original 750 parts fit.

Jdub · Feb 5, 2023

Once again this group shows its chops! I have sent an email to AN and we will see what happens - they are a great bunch and I am sure all will be well.

I will be using Dunlop K-81 410-19" tires front and rear on this machine. Mostly I wanted all of this in place so I could bolt down the front brake bits and begin a gravity bleed but other areas (the "sharp" end of the bike as NormanW says) need attention as well.

L.A.B. · Feb 5, 2023

Jdub said:
I have a front fender (06.3175) and fender stays (06.2323) both from AN so would not expect bad work. Went to fit the stays and found that the bends do not match the fender. Is it common to get the center arc in alignment with the inside of the fender first, and then fit the arms to their proper place at the fork ends by bending? I do not want to damage the fender but instead want the arms in nice alignment, both to the arc of the inner fender and then to each side of the fork before I bolt this thing together tight. Thanks for any experience.

View attachment 103472

It does look similar to the (rear only) stainless stay that's been on my 850 Mk3 since I've owned it (getting on for 24 years!).

Fitting front fender stays to fender - not a good fit, are alterations to fit common?

Jdub · Feb 6, 2023

Just to wrap this up here is the response from AN (below). I will have a pair of chrome stays, new, for sale and will be soliciting advice on best stainless steel front fender stays to go forward with. I know the rear fender was made in Italy, but cannot speak for the front which arrived very well bubble-wrapped while the rear in a plastic sleeve. I think Greg has described what I am seeing in my front fender. It seems to provide a lot of room between tire and fender but cannot yet speak to the overall arc of the item.

Thanks again to all who helped with this issue.

Hello

Apologies for this problem which we believe is caused by new front mudguards having a slightly different cross-sectional shape than the originals. We are unable, at present, to supply replacement stays.

If you are unable to use the stays we will arrange collection.

Regards,

marshg246 · Feb 6, 2023

So, I reformed the stays to fit the fender, elongated the holes in the stays, elongated the holes in the bridge to allow the fender to be lower, and used a 3/16" thick spacer between the stay and fender at all four locations. PITA but looks fine.

B+Bogus · Feb 6, 2023

How easy would it be to check you'll have sufficient clearance with the 4:10 tyre and the new stays?
If they are the early type I believe there would be less than zero clearance.

Jdub · Feb 6, 2023

There appears to be enough room to fit the 4.10 tire in there. I am okay fabbing metalwork but here, with chrome plating, I am a bit hesitant.

MichaelB · Feb 6, 2023

marshg246 said:
So, I reformed the stays to fit the fender, elongated the holes in the stays, elongated the holes in the bridge to allow the fender to be lower, and used a 3/16" thick spacer between the stay and fender at all four locations. PITA but looks fine.

I have an AN fender and a SS stay from Eurotrash. Greg helped me with his advice and it came out great.
I'll post pic later after I snap it at home.

MichaelB · Feb 7, 2023

Here's the pictures.

I originally thought it was completely wrong and wanted to return it and get an AN.
Greg commented the AN wasn't any better.
With his advice I spread it changing the radius between the screw holes. Then in my vice, bent the arms back to meet the forks.
Now the holes don't line up so file and file till they do.
There is still a space between the fender and the stay. I spaced it with some A/N washers, as in Army/Navy. They have smaller OD.
If it's not spaced, the fender will crush at that point. I have seen lot's of Norton fenders crushed there including my original Mark 1 bought way back in 1973.
I think this is one of those British/Norton 'fettling' things.
I am pleased with the outcome.
Just a comment, Mr. Marsh offered this help, even though I hadn't bought these parts from him.

Jdub · Feb 7, 2023

Greg is a great source of information on this and a bunch of other items I have engaged him on - it's why he is my "go-to" for parts before I go anywhere else.

I feel fortified and ready to bend some sheet metal so wish me luck!

MichaelB · Feb 7, 2023

Looking through the photos here.
Is it the stay or the radius of the fender as that is not correct on these new parts?

Fitting front fender stays to fender - not a good fit, are alterations to fit common?

Jdub

marinatlas

B+Bogus

Fast Eddie

B+Bogus

concours

YING

Pittsboro,NC

marshg246

mdt-son

Interbak

Attachments

Jdub

L.A.B.

Moderator

Jdub

marshg246

B+Bogus

Jdub

Attachments

MichaelB

"Sons of Arthritus"

MichaelB

"Sons of Arthritus"

Jdub

MichaelB

"Sons of Arthritus"

Similar threads