First Post - How to identify an 'S' type

Westie,
That's the right mount, but someone has either modified the stand or made a new one. I'm tempted to weld about 2-3" extra on mine to get it a bit more upright. I have to carry around a block of wood if I happen to stop at a flat place. I'm not like some of these guys who like to lean them up against buildings.

Dave
69S

Want to trade stands? Mine sits up so upright I am afraid its going to fall over!

Wait, can I just loosen and rotate the clamps slightly? :shock:

LondonMark said:

FInally - mine is Fireflake Golden Bronze but defintely came with the black fairing for the rear lamp. I've never actually seen a silver one. Could it have been a fitment for the US market?

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Don't know, does anyone have some UK brochures from the day? All I see are the US brochures.

Dave
69S

DogT said:

Don't know, does anyone have some UK brochures from the day? All I see are the US brochures.

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UK brochures?

I think a genuine 750 S type would have been a rare machine in the UK at the time? In fact it probably wasn't even considered to be a standard UK market model?
The scrambler style 750 S with its relatively small fuel tank, high level exhausts, high and wide (by UK standards of the day) handlebars, and metal flake :shock: paint would probably not have appealed to the conservative taste of the majority of British, English, Scottish, Welsh, N. Irish (delete as applicable) riders of that period who were only just coming to terms with the fact that a motorbike could be painted a colour other than black or silver (or perhaps a subtle shade of red, blue or green) and not have meggas, clip-ons and rearsets.

Commandos I remember seeing on UK roads at that time were Fastbacks-until 1972 when the Interstate became the most popular UK model.

So, I sort of figured the S wasn't marketed to the UK. I guess that's why the 68 Spares Book lists Home and Export, the S model only lists export except for the lights which include France, Continental, Germany and Italy. I suppose they all had different lighting standards then. But there must have been sales brochures for the first Commando (fastback) and then the MKII Fastback?

Dave
69S

DogT said:

LondonMark said:

FInally - mine is Fireflake Golden Bronze but defintely came with the black fairing for the rear lamp. I've never actually seen a silver one. Could it have been a fitment for the US market?

Click to expand...

Don't know, does anyone have some UK brochures from the day? All I see are the US brochures.

Dave
69S

Click to expand...

I'm not sure that Norton had separate 1970 brochures. Mine has a sticker on stating : "NOTE This catalogue has been prepared for N. America. There are detail differences in specification and finish on machines supplied to the rest of the world." For 1971, this had clearly changed but I can't trap them using different photogrpahs until the 1974 850 brochure when the black cap silencers made it a bit obvious.

There are some clues to the tail light shroud in some Uk publications.

Roy Bacon's restoration book includes a photo on page 132 of a journalist at Brands Hatch, all togged-up in full waxed cottons and the bike has the silver light. The other Bacon twins book has a photo on page 65 of a large motorcycle show stand. It's probably UK as it has a Lloyd's Bank stand and an MCN quote on the show board. Once again, a silver taillight but the small image below of what looks to be a yellow S Type clearly has a black light unit. It looks as if it might be related to the fuel tank colour but I can imagine that bikes were swapped around to match incoming orders.

I've just realised that I have a 1969 Plumstead brochure as well. It seems to have been a whole world brochure, judging by the capacities used and it has the Mercury and Fastback listed. The photos inside are black and white but the S Type is a metalflake job with a silver light.

Maybe the US market was so big they figured that was all they worried about and marketed to. It's amazing, Texas has a larger population than OZ today. US has a population of about 14 times OZ and UK has 3 times OZ. I find that completely amazing, not that I like all the people around, being a recluse and Luddite too. I remember when I was a kid back in the 50's there weren't all these people around and it was pretty nice, not that I want to return.

Dave
69S

Definitely a pre-71 frame. The side stand leg is Triumph or BSA. I have one like it somewhere out in the shop that came with some Triumph parts somebody gave me.

72westie said:

Want to trade stands? Mine sits up so upright I am afraid its going to fall over!

Wait, can I just loosen and rotate the clamps slightly? :shock:

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No, the inside clamp part is welded to the frame. You could heat it and bend the bar as you like easily, then repaint. Actually I kind of like the looks of yours.

Hey Ron, if you have one that fits, let me know.

Dave
69S

Hey Ron, if you have one that fits, let me know.

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Dave,
I'll have to dig through the stuff on the mezzanine. I won't get to it until this weekend. If I still have it, I'll PM you.

Was the notched rear fender (for tire pump) found only on the S and Roadsters... Through '70?

Also, weren't the fins painted silver through 70?

yes the guard was notched for the tyre pump in 69-70 S and Roadster only my 69 fastbach does not have it, yes silver barrells for 68-70
Al

An S type although rare on UK roads at the time certainly wasn't unheard of. My commandos first registered owner was a Mr Gus Kuhn 275 Clapham Rd London April 2nd 1970. The original registration document clearly indicates it as a Commando 'S'. It then had various owners around the home counties and Norfolk circa 71/74. Perhaps the metallic paint might have been to much for the British market at the time as mine was wearing its original plain red when I purchased it. Regarding the question how to identify an 'S' type, I'm not sure you really can unless you have documented evidence and even then what model the commando was when it left the factory could be totally different to the model that left the dealership.
Mark.

Gus Kuhn were a bunch of radical dissadents though , an ' S ' is just what youd expect these blokes to have in the showroom .
They even used metalflake pale mettallic green on some of their fiberglass equipment .

Was a picture on the cover of Motorcycle Mechanics Mag. of a Japanese workshop entry , with a Roadster , ' S ' , & Kuhn in it .
Think the Kuhn's had more of the roadburner / tourer image than the Dunstall's , which were more Track oriented .

'71 silver barrel also. Combats black in '72 but non-Combats were still silver.

Dave- Nice to see I am not the only S owner with an ammeter that won't sit straight in the headlight. I thought I just had an odd ball one.

kohlerb said:

Dave- Nice to see I am not the only S owner with an ammeter that won't sit straight in the headlight. I thought I just had an odd ball one.

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Actually mine is in straight, I was trying to figure out how it mounted and finally got it right. I don't remember what the issue was though, something about the way the meter is made.



Dave
69S

Welcome to the forum, Nick.

Dave,
I will probably still buy the bike and decide what form its going to take when I have fully identified it. Might stick to the plan and build as an S in which case I might need a bit of guidance from you. I guess the purists out there will be 'tutting'.
Out of interest was the frame you posted an image of, powder coated or stove enamelled? I am coming back to restoring/rebuilding after quite a gap. I always stoved in the past but powder seems to be more popular (maybe due to cost?). Any views on this?

People go both ways on P/C or paint. I guess it's a personal opinion. I did the powder coat (painter called it 'liquid black' and I did the crown parts and the bridge on the front mudguard in 'chrome' which turned out quite nice), it was cheaper than paint, and despite what some people say that you can't repair it, black paint will fill a crack/chip just fine and being black it's hard to see. Last time I did it myself with zinc chromate and black spray paint from a can. Didn't hold up to the gas and oil very good at all. If you powder coat, note that the engine mount points have to be masked from the powder coat, you can see in my frame picture. Old Britts has a large technical article on it. I did the gearbox mounts too, paint the masked areas with enamel after assembly, you can hardly see it. It is much easier to mask the areas with plastic oven proof stick on circles that the painter should have than to try to get it off later and putting all those nuts/bolts/washers on is a waste of time and money. My painter wouldn't let me put the hardware on after stripping because he would have to blast it clean again from the grease on the hardware and he came up with all sizes of plastic circles and sheets that can be cut to shape. I masked it after it was blasted and before the powder coat with the painter so you might want to talk to the painter about this before hand.

Up to you whether you want the S look or not, even if it's not how the bike was built. You can turn a Norton into any style bike with the right parts. The S exhaust is not very stable and the shields last maybe 5K miles until they start fracturing. I think the pipes are more prone to cracking and the dog leg bracket cracks too. The clearances on the S exhaust are pretty tight. Only real benefit is you never have to worry about the kick-start lever hitting anything.

I have a real long thread on my rebuild if you want to skim through it, search for '69 phoenix'.

I'd be glad to help with any of your questions, probably most of them will come down to your preference.

Dave
69S