First Post - How to identify an 'S' type

Finally got confirmation from VMCC (not that I doubted anyone on this forum). The bike is definitely a Roadster. It was sent from the factory to a London dealer on 30th November 1970 and it was registered 01/01/1971.
The only doubts I have now on buying it is if the frame and engine do in fact match up.
The seller doesn't have (cant find) the frame ID plate but assures me the numbers match. Mind you he assured me it was an 'S' type. The bike I am buying (tonight!!!) has the centre stand mounted to the engine/gearbox cradle which according to an earlier post (and the Norvil site) didn't come into place until frame no. 141783. The frame number for the bike I am buying is 141670 so before and therefore should have the cross brace and brackets for the centre stand. I wonder if the frame I am being offered is either not a matching one or has been butchered although it does have the side stand set up that seems correct.
I guess I've got to have a long hard look at it again before parting with the cash. Might be walking away from this one.
By the way Dave did you powder coat your oil tank and battery tray too?

I didn't P/C the oil tank, but knowing what I do now, I would. Just be sure to get all the blasting media out of it. Yes I did the battery tray, everything seen in the picture, including the rear wheel parts, masking the chain sprocket part and the mounting studs. And the seat pan.

There is nothing preventing one to mount a later centre stand on the cradle and whacking off the frame mounts, so unless the frame has the original ID plate on it, it's hard to tell. Other telling item would be the mounts for the tyre pump on the rear loop, right side. Check the front mudguard bridge, that changed to 5" in 71. There are also some 4 1/2" bridges too, maybe for Fastback? The early front mudguards and matching stays are impossible to find. The rear mudguard on 69/70 also has a C section (no flat area on the top) to them unlike the D sections later. The 69/70 had 2 styles of rear mudguard mounting, early ones mounted between the top shock mounts, later one off the frame down by the horn. With that late a number it would be down by the horn.





Good luck,
Dave
69S

79x100 said:

I've just realised that I have a 1969 Plumstead brochure as well. It seems to have been a whole world brochure, judging by the capacities used and it has the Mercury and Fastback listed. The photos inside are black and white but the S Type is a metalflake job with a silver light.

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Would it be possible you could share that brochure with us somehow? That would be a treat.

Dave
69S

hi there i know that i'm about 3 years late with this reply ,but ELP 709J was my motorcycle i bought it brand new on the 1/1/1971 it cost £525 ,i bought it from a shop called pride and clarke's in london ,it was a norton commando roadster and the original colour was canary yellow, if it still has the original engine you will find that the crankcase has been welded where a big end bolt came out and punched a hole in the crankcase this was in 1974 . if you want any pictures of this bike just get back to me and i will gladly forward them to it was a fantastic bike and i loved every minute of owning it regards tom

79x100 said:

I'd say that you need to make a quick phone call to the Vintage Motor Cycle Club. The factory records may show original trim and or colour for the bike. It's worth a try.

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The factory records for '71 models do include model and color. If you trust your engine/frame number to be original check with the VMCC in England or NOC also in England for this info.

DogT said:

I'm just guessing off what I think is a Roy Bacon list, and 141717 is listed as the last Fastback MKII. I have no other reason, as you know they could have done anything.

Anyhow, welcome Nick.

Another thing, Nick, there is hardly any way to know that a bike was originally an S model unless you have one that shows the original bill of sale as such, and I doubt if anyone has one of those. I know mine was because it had very few miles when I got it and nearly all stock items that seem to go with the model. In the number range it could have been an S, fastback or Roadster, there is very little difference in any of them through 70, except the fastback had a different oil tank. the mudguards were different too as well as some of the fairings and sheet metal. Look here http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Broch ... chures.htm for brochures of the different years.

Dave
69S

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Dave
I am a bit thick, but can you run all this past me again?
You mentioned in your earlier post that the S had a central oil tank. I must admit I never ever knew this. But above you mentioned that the fastback had a different oil tank. I never knew this either. My first Commando was a 72 Combat Fastback and I had obsessed about owning one for a long time. I had cut my teeth on an old 61 Dominator and at just 16yrs of age Nortons were all I could think and dream of. Still is the case now and I'm close on 60! Except Jenny, I think of her occasionally and when she isn't beating me I tell her.

Anyway, the 72 Fastback had its oil tank right where it was for every model and still is there on my 850. Quite some (many) years ago I bought a very early rough old Fastback from around (guessing) 1970. It had the tacho drive sticking out of the timing cover which looked dreadful. I didn't much research its vintage. But I don't remember it having an oil tank location any different from my 72 Combat's. Not remembering doesn't mean it wasn't. This was back in 1981 and too much "wild women and song" in those days has made my head a bit fuzzy. So, could I ask what was different about the early fastback oil tank? You might jolt my memory.

An aside:
I grew up on the northern beaches of Sydney.
It was all wine, women and song!
In my early 20's I went way way west driving tractors.
Out there, all we got was rum, bum and gramophone records!

phil yates said:

Anyway, the 72 Fastback had its oil tank right where it was for every model and still is there on my 850.

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Yes, all Commandos from around the start of "1971" production had the "triangular" shape oil tank on the right hand side.

phil yates said:

Quite some (many) years ago I bought a very early rough old Fastback from around (guessing) 1970.

But I don't remember it having an oil tank location any different from my 72 Combat's.

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The early Fastback (and 750R type) also had the oil tank in the same basic location as 71-on models with the triangular tank, however, the early Fastback/R oil tank was different to the '71-on tank and this early Fastback/R oil tank had no cover panel.

The "central" oil tank was fitted to 750 'S' and early (1970) model Roadster.

The early Fastback (and 750R type) also had the oil tank in the same basic location as 71-on models with the triangular tank, however, the early Fastback/R oil tank was different to the '71-on tank and this early Fastback/R oil tank had no cover panel.

The "central" oil tank was fitted to 750 'S' and early (1970) model Roadster.

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Thanks for the info.
There is a wealth of information available on this forum.
I'm learning more about Commando's than I ever knew.

Phil

Phil,

I guess you've never had the opportunity to see a 69/70 production S or Roadster model. LAB has explained it fully.



Dave

DogT said:

Phil,

I guess you've never had the opportunity to see a 69/70 production S or Roadster model. LAB has explained it fully.

Dave

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DogT
In 69/70 I was dreaming of Triumphs and nothing else existed as far as I was concerned. But I did note the odd S and Roadster about on the road. In mid 71 I got the opportunity to buy a 61 Dominator for $200, I wasn't even old enough to hold a licence but bought it. From that moment on I became fascinated in Nortons, Commandos in particular. In early 73 I sold the Dominator and bought my first Commando fastback. It was like buying a Saturn 5 Rocket Ship and forty years later I am still fascinated by Commandos. But as for the earlier ones ie pre 72 Combat, I technically didn't know too much about them and still don't. I still have some very early Norton brochures when the first of the Norton girls made an appearance. Both S and Roadster are featured on these brochures and let's be honest, they were both really hot looking machines. Produced primarily for the American market they were all engine and little else. Sort of half undressed, just like the Norton girl, who was even hotter!

So I certainly had no idea there were different oil tanks and in different locations on the early models, so I find this very interesting. I love all Commandos, except the High Rider. And I nearly puked when the Mk III arrived on the scene but I didn't understand then what it was about or why it came about. Now I own one in red fastback form. Like it so much, I'm getting a green one as well. I have the last of the Commandos, not the fastest of the Commandos. And I have it in the style I always loved, the Fastback. All this has gotten my brother so excited he too has just bought a Mk III Interstate, which he wants to convert to a Fastback.

Phil,

Yes, we agree on the Commando. The 69/70 models have a few small differences, but it's mostly cosmetic. As much as I like the S, I really like the 71 Fastback with the peashooters. Piero is making one with modern disc brakes and it looks real nice. they look like a motorcycle should. I'm also always amazed how small they are, they almost look more like a 350 size than a 750.

Dave
69S

Hi Dave,
here is my Frankenstein Commando Fastback.
You can find parts from 1967 to 1975.
I mounted what more I liked of each Commando's type.
Ciao
Piero









But i love your bike.