Exhaust clamping

What's the go with the exhaust clamps? No matter what I do they always seem to come loose at the head and the junction of header pipe to 'zorst is nothing to brag about either. Any special tips?

This is what I've got at the moment at the head:

The collar has a wide tapped boss so I made up a grub screw and ground a conical point on one end. Inserted into the hole and done up hard enough so it bites into the pipe. Then followed up with a lock nut. Well, that's my approach to it, dunno if that's what the hole was originally for...

davamb said:

What's the go with the exhaust clamps? No matter what I do they always seem to come loose at the head and the junction of header pipe to 'zorst is nothing to brag about either. Any special tips? ...

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Get the OEM tabbed collar locks. They work and I dunno why people don't use them more often. Part Number 062412.

Call Greg at Triton 0408 398 658 or Mr Grumpy at Modak 9602-1229

Mick

The problem with any type of locking device (grub screw, tab washer, safety wire etc.) is that while it may prevent the exhaust nut from turning it does not necesarily keep the nut/pipe system from getting loose in the port. Personally I have not had too much trouble with the exhaust nuts coming loose, but I have been thinking of hooking up some sort of spring loaded safety wire/bracket set up. Hopefully if the exhaust pipe/nut ever worked its way loose due to engine shaking/vibration some self tightening would occur. Now that I have spoke I'll have to come up with something.

GB

After I got mine fixed when I first got her in 1996, I used the tightening seqecne recommended by the repairer. Tighten them, run the bike, and tighten them some more. Then get the bike nice and warm, rev it to 3k or so and tighten them at the same time. After that should be good.

rightshiftrick said:

After I got mine fixed when I first got her in 1996, I used the tightening seqecne recommended by the repairer. Tighten them, run the bike, and tighten them some more. Then get the bike nice and warm, rev it to 3k or so and tighten them at the same time. After that should be good.

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I have done the same. Tight, no maintenance and no issues. I do know a guy who uses a high temp copper sealant, puts a little on the threads, tightens it up and then lets it dry. That works well for him.

+1 with jsouthard. I use the hi-temp copper sealant on the threads, and 750 style exhaust nuts. Tighten up, ride the bike, tighten again when hot. I then safety wire them as per the ol britts article, around the rocker cover nuts ... don't drill a hole in the head. Then keep an eye on it, and tighten as needed. It's just one of those irritating Commando "niggles" some of us have to fart around with; where as some Commando owners just stay tight. I've had both ...

It's important to make sure that the pipe is seated correctly by moving it back & forth slightly whilst doing up the nut. Put some copper grease on the threads & get them as tight as you can with the engine HOT. If you re-tighten a couple of times within a few miles, you should'nt need any tab washers, wires or the like but your bolt arangement looks unique.

Bob.

Hello Dave,
It's hard to see in your picture whether the exhaust nuts are screwed right in against the fins?
If they are like mine were, one anyway, I had to make a 2mm steel ring and slip that over the header then put the nut on. This allowed the nut to screw up tight before it bottomed out in the head.
I tried 2 exhaust seals, but they just crushed and the nut came loose.
After comming loose so many times it eventually stripped the thread,,,,,, and that's a head off repair.

I agree with tightening several times as the engine heats up AND the original lock tabs are added insurance.

Graeme

Also the header to muffler, the clamps seem to stretch and don't squeeze tight enough.
A strip of thin copper about 3/4 the diameter of the clamp, pushed in under the clamp and all is tight again, and you can't see the copper.

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

GB, I tighten up the clamps at the exhaust port and all it seems to do is just flatten the gasket and then after running the bike a while the zorst is loose again. It's not the clamp coming undone, the conical lock screw seems to work there alright, but now the nut is virtually at the fins with little (if any) clearance to tighten up.

Scored some stainless shim from a solder paste stencil at work today so some of that will see duty at the middle clamp (thanks Graeme). Might try the steel ring solution too if there's no more slack to be taken up.

I'll also grab some of those collar locks and see if they're a better alternative than the lock screw system I've implemented Mike. But I've known grown men bite their arms off rather than face Grumpy. Strange really, they usually have what I'm after, but why oh why should it be so difficult? Is Greg still running Triton? Haven't had contact with him since NOCVic days.

Seems to me you must work backward in this process - get the head end right with the middle clamp loose, take up any slack in the middle and tighten and then finally check everything isn't stressed at the rubber mounts at the back.

Contemplating a run up to Bathurst, so trying to get all these issues sorted. Have put in new wheel bearings, chain, rebuilding the headlight, checking everything for vibration - seems endless. Must... have... more... faith!

davamb said:

GB, I tighten up the clamps at the exhaust port and all it seems to do is just flatten the gasket and then after running the bike a while the zorst is loose again. It's not the clamp coming undone, the conical lock screw seems to work there alright,

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Bronze nuts have the same expantion rate as the alloy ports and should not shake loose, mine never have. Always use used exhaust gasket rings, double up if required, and with a little instant gasket for a good seal.

The problem with most locking systems is the thread can free off and then nut will rattle the thread to death. Without it the nut unscrews and the exhaust roars out its displeasure before any real damage.

Neat idea though.
Cash

I had one vibrate loose about a year ago so when I installed a new set of nuts this time I took the advice from a friend and used a small amount of high temp copper anti seize, retightened after ridding a few miles and getting them up to tempature and they have stayed nice and tight for many thousand miles. I think the copper anti seize goo is what keeps them from being able to vibrate loose. I keep meaning to do the safety wire ala the Old Britts web site method via the wire around the rocker cover nuts so no holes get drilled in the fins but just like giving the young girl a bath, I keep procrastinating!

davamb said:

I'll also grab some of those collar locks and see if they're a better alternative than the lock screw system I've implemented Mike. But I've known grown men bite their arms off rather than face Grumpy. Strange really, they usually have what I'm after, but why oh why should it be so difficult? Is Greg still running Triton? Haven't had contact with him since NOCVic days.

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I've had no issues at all with the tabbed collars. The trick to fit them is first put a slight bend into them. That allows the header nut to pull up against the collar and not allow it to rattle. Put the collar onto a vice, jaws open about an inch. Lay a socket bar or tube on the collar above the gap. Tap it with hammer to put a bow into it. I fit 2 crush washers into my RH port as 1 lets the header nut tighten up but there's still a bit of play in the pipe. That would get worse when hot. The LH port is good with 1 crush washer. It is bound to be different on any other head.

I fit the whole exhaust for each side as a complete assembly. I put a milk crate under the muffler to support it near the hanger bracket. Apply a small smear of grease (or other mentioned compound) to the nut thread, fit the collar, insert the crush washer and mount up the header. Get about 3 or 4 turns on the nut and then mount up the muffler onto the rubber buffers. Get the nuts on just a couple of turns to hold it there. Poke the collar tabs into the fins on the inner side of the head and keep the nut locking tabs on the outer towards you as you tighten up the header nut. Once you've got it fairly tight make sure the kick start clears the muffler and push it to where it fits best. Tighten up both the mufflers and then get the big C spanner onto the header nuts and really heave on it. Start the bike and get it warm, rev it and get the C spanner onto the header nuts again. Try to get the gaps in the header nut to align with the 2 lock tabs. Once there, use pointy nose pliers to bend the tabs in and then a small long punch to flatten them in. Done up tight, I've never had one come loose or rattle in over 70,000kms.

Yes, Greg is still operating Triton. I hear Mr Grumpy's just waiting for the old bird to cark it and then he's going to shut the shop and might do an on-line business. Yeah right, the joint doesn't even have a cash register or a PC so that's a bit of a stretch of the imagination!


Mick

The standard tool is basically too short to sufficiently tighten the lockrings. Throw away all the locking gizmos, put a 2ft extension on the standard lockring tool and haul them up hot, job done.

You will not strip the thread unless the threads are completely shot already and they won't come loose.

The standard tool is basically too short to sufficiently tighten the lockrings. Throw away all the locking gizmos, put a 2ft extension on the standard lockring tool and haul them up hot, job done.

You will not strip the thread unless the threads are completely shot already and they won't come loose.

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Amen to seasoned experienced advice above I ended up coming to myself and reason I use Milk of Magnesia in a few heat dried layers so I can get em back off as they ain't gonna back off with the about full body slams on a few foot lever with attention that I'm on the heavy lug and all line up to take the torque done hot.

On Ma Peel who anything goes and has wimpy Al exhaust rings I'll not be such a brute but rig up ring to ring spring tensioner so any thread crushing beating will tend to just nip up more and not beat up slackness.

That's pretty much what I do, I put a 4' piece of 1 1/2" pipe on the tool and then it doesn't take much to get them tight. It's just hard to keep the exhaust pipe from twisting on the left (lower to me) one and sometimes my tool slips off, it really takes 2 people and a block of wood for a shim.

Dave
69S

I think the problem is one of confidence, putting a big extension on the tool is a big act of faith.

I used to always carry the lockring tool with me, I'd heard all the advice about lengthening but it went against the grain a bit. Eventually after 16 years of Commando ownership and 2 thread repairs caused by the nut coming loose repeatedly and wrecking the threads I tried the big extension and I've not had any problems since.

Just try it, you will kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

I had a lot of problems with the pipe being loose in the port, and the collars coming loose. Now I use the Suzuki gaskets and nip the collars when hot and bingo - no problems. The Suzuki gasket is far more substantial than the OEM on and a little cheaper. It is far better quality as it is quite a thick compression style gasket, unlike the thinner OEM one. Any chance of ANIL stocking these in future? There is thread on the forum which can be found by searching, the Suzuki Part No. is the same in the UK and most Suzuki dealers should stock them as they cover a wide range of models.

Suzuki p/n 14181-01D00. It's the only crush washer I'll use.

And I carry the exhaust wrench with me and check regularly. Eventually they stop loosening. I haven't the courage to put the fear-of-God into tightening them, I'm afraid of breaking the tabs off the collars.

maylar said:

Suzuki p/n 14181-01D00. It's the only crush washer I'll use.

And I carry the exhaust wrench with me and check regularly. Eventually they stop loosening. I haven't the courage to put the fear-of-God into tightening them, I'm afraid of breaking the tabs off the collars.

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Be brave, they won't break and leave the tool at home