Ethanol, For What Its Worth

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Orsonoce said:
question for the brits: does 5% ethanol eat your tanks as fast as the 10% in the states? have you guys experienced problems yet? (worried about my supposedly melting tank...)
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Yes the 10% ethanol in UK fuels does destroy GRP tanks pretty quickly............corrosion is worst in country which have hotter climates than the UK though. The main manufacturer of new GRP tanks for Brit bikes here has been unable to overcome corrosion problems, and advises all new tanks must be snake oiled before use.............which I think might put a lot of buyers off?
 
I have a test kit similar to that one. Mix fuel and water in a graduated beaker with some dye and it will tell you the amount of alcohol. I haven't used it recently but I have seen anywhere from zero to 15% alcohol in what was supposed to be 5% ethanol fuel.

If you have an accurate graduated beaker you can do the test without the kit or dye. Google for instructions. Jim
 
Ethanol is added to the tanker when fuel leaves the refinery, so there seems to be good chance of major errors, with percentage content varying widely.
 
Why on earth anyone would want to buy a tank thats obviously not fit for purpose, then seal it to prevent almost immediate failure is very hard to understand? For very little more than they are paying for those not fit for purpose tanks, they could have ones which worked fine with any pump fuel, and could be sold with a guarantee, rather than a disclaimer suggesting the use of a sealer!
 
That's exactly why I'm not going anywhere with my F/G tank right now and using avgas. Solves a lot of problems, except the trip one, and that isn't an issue for me. I have a hard time making much more than a 50 mile run right now, but it's getting better.

Dave
69S
 
Carbonfibre said:
Why on earth anyone would want to buy a tank thats obviously not fit for purpose, then seal it to prevent almost immediate failure is very hard to understand? For very little more than they are paying for those not fit for purpose tanks, they could have ones which worked fine with any pump fuel, and could be sold with a guarantee, rather than a disclaimer suggesting the use of a sealer!
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It sounds like you have a solution in mind - what is it? There is a lot of interest in this topic by many who have glass tanks that are in trouble.

Vintage Paul
 
I had an interesting little conversation with Mr. Caswell last week. I was talking to him about the Caswell sealer that had failed in my vans tank on the way home from the Pennsylvania rally. He said the sealer they were selling in the time period I did my tank probably did fail because of the Ethanol. He told me the sealer they are selling now is improved but he didn't say when the change was made even though I asked. Jim
 
That is a significant revelation. About what year did your tanks gets sealed and failed? I remember most your efforts described to do it well so was distraught at it failing since I did two tanks one glass one steel. So far so goodie but not putting much ethanol in them yet.
 
That was in 2000. I did my van tank and I also did a fastback tank.
I cut it open, ground it out and built it up with glass cloth and used Caswells as the rosin before I reassembled and sloshed it. I only used it a couple years and hung it in the rafters because the paint was starting to get bumpy but I didn't see any signs of leakage otherwise. I also used Caswells on a glass roadster tank in approximately 2001. I abraded the inside with drywall screws and a paint shaker but I didn't cut it apart. It didn't last a year before it started to seep.
What Jon said was comforting but I'm not sure if I want to try it again just yet.
I am holding out for the day the dirtbags that are getting rich off the Ethanol scam go to jail and we can get real gasoline again. Maybe my kids will be able to enjoy it. :| Jim
 
I would imagine the earlier Caswell snake oil was based on bisphenol a epoxy, and the current one is novalac based. Both will fail when used as a thin film slosh coating in fuel tanks, but the novalac one has higher chemical resistance and failure will take longer.

There are several reasons why epoxy based snake oils are not fit for purpose, but the most obvious one is that they are very brittle, and depending on the particular tank to which they have been applied cracking will occur at some stage, which will then quickly lead to failure of the "sealed" tank.

If anyone selling a tank sealer is unable to provide test results and chemical resistance data to prospective buyers, it can be safely assumed the product doesnt work, and unless the buyer wants to trust in ridiculous advertising blurb put out by these people, is something that should be avoided for anything other than a possible short term repair.
 
Ok Jim, really did not want to relive your wasted tank efforts again ugh, but the decade ago is a bit of a relief. I did Peels IS in 2003, hope it was new stock. I don't quite understand Carbons thin slosh when referring to Caswells product as it flows as slow as molasses and tends to stay at least 1/16" thick even draning off the hump, so take lots of patience to turn tank a bit and wait and wait for significant layer to flow, then let it creep like that all over tank insides time and again till left overs barely able to drool out, then back at it till stiffens to stay put. One layer like that is all Peel's tank got and thick enough to see its depth peering into tank, looks like excess glass resin in between cloth folds in corners.

I know Wes's '71 really thick Caswell'd HyRyder tiny tank has had lots of ethanol in it as he can't hardly pass a gas station and he said at least a pint of Caswell remained inside. I don't think it holds 2 gallons now, if it ever did. Then my knee knocked tank into head steady to leak in the tunnel so he JBWelded last year and been holding fine and original burnt organe gel coat pristine. Time will tell.
 
If you are able to apply any novalac epoxy sealer thick enough to resist cracking caused by vibration, and the tank itself expanding and contracting at a different rate to the sealant, then chances of a long term repair are increased by perhaps 200%!

However unless multiple coats are applied (which can be problematic in itself) building up a thick enough film can be very difficult. A far easier way of achieving the same result would be a sealer with some sort of binding agent in it to increase durability and reduce chances of cracking.

Most of the sealers around currently can be compared to adding water to cement, and expecting the hardened material to have the same properties as concrete. Without sand or aggregate you dont have concrete, and without a binder of some sort a thin film of very brittle epoxy resin isnt likely to last that long as a tank sealer.
 
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