Electric starter conversion

fiatfan · Jan 13, 2016

Since my financial status this winter is somewhat on the down side, hoping it´ll be better come spring :mrgreen: , I´ve been thinking and reading posts here on this issue. If one could find a complete el. starter setup from a MKIII, would it fit an earlier 850? By "fit" I mean without having to do too many changes. Could it be a "cheaper" way to not having to use an old hurting right leg :idea:

than for example an Alton? Is it possible to find something like this somewhere in the UK?
Tommy

toppy · Jan 13, 2016

The crankshaft is different from the earlier type to hold the starting components. If you got all the parts then changing the crank would probably be the worst part of the job as all the other parts are inside the primary. But the price of good second hand parts is climbing and for reliability some parts need updating or modifying. If you could get the parts and had reasonable ability with spanners it is possible.

Fast Eddie · Jan 13, 2016

Drive side crank case half is different too isn't it?

All in all, I would say its not viable. Best to either buy one of the kits (cNw or Alton), sell your bike and buy a mk111, or buy a longer kickstart (like the T160 item sold by RGM).

grandpaul · Jan 13, 2016

Mark III engines and lower lumps can be bought for SOMEWHAT (relatively) less than a modern starter kit.

However, you'll have the serial number issue, and of course the overhaul & reassembly.

It is a good option. If you do the work yourself, it can be significantly cheaper.

bsaboss · Jan 13, 2016

I believe (but stand to be corrected) that the MkIII crank is wider than the non electric start cranks and won't fit in the earlier cases. I'd suggest you have a look at the Colorado Norton Work electric start kit. It appears to be engineered to be bulletproof and seems very reasonably priced considering it comes complete with a belt drive.

grandpaul · Jan 13, 2016

bsaboss said:
I believe (but stand to be corrected) that the MkIII crank is wider than the non electric start cranks and won't fit in the earlier cases.

I think it was already mentioned that it's the drive side crank nose that is longer, heavier flywheel, and the width BETWEEN the cases; also, the primary mounting is different (although pre-MkIII cases can be drilled, tapped and helicoiled or timeserted to align with the MkIII primary studs)

(EDIT to include points made by lcrken, as alluded to by L.A.B.)

L.A.B. · Jan 13, 2016

grandpaul said:
bsaboss said:

I believe (but stand to be corrected) that the MkIII crank is wider than the non electric start cranks and won't fit in the earlier cases.

Click to expand...

I think it was already mentioned that it's the drive side crank nose that is longer, not the width BETWEEN the cases; however, the primary mounting is different (although pre-MkIII cases can be drilled, tapped and helicoiled or timeserted to align with the MkIII primary studs)

crankshaft-1975-norton-850-commando-mkiii-750-crankcas-t19095.html#p242262

norton73 · Jan 13, 2016

Also, if you intend to retain rightside shifting, you will need to close up the shift shaft holes in the primary case, and you will need to space out the brake side mounts to clear the wider primary. It will probably one little thing after another till you are back on the road.
I'd go with an already thought out and proven kit, unless you are a machinist and have time on your hands.

Jerry Doe · Jan 13, 2016

Save up for the cNw one...

andychain · Jan 14, 2016

cough....splutter....belt drive.......why when the big Merc chains solves the problem at
fraction of the cost. Same applies to the Alton good bit of kit but chains !!!!!!!

I have now sold the iwis product for Nortons globally and peeps are happy, got a guy
calling in for a Norton Commando chain tomorrow. As I have often stated I dont care where
you buy but look at the options before you jump.

I am doing a talk to Cornwall VMCC March 10th if you want to chew my ears off.

Andy

fiatfan · Jan 14, 2016

Ok people, this was just an idea originated from my lack of money, but shows how little I know. Did not know that there was such big differences when you come "up" to the MKIII. (Note to self: check facts :!: :wink: )
Toppy: I do have sufficient "spanner ability". (Love that expression!)
Eddie: I´ve read a lot about that T160 kickstarter, seems really interesting, does it help much?
I would naturally love to be able to buy the cNw or the Alton conversion, but to me they both cost a serious amount of money, which I don´t have, at the moment anyway. Hope things gets better. If it´s possible to buy a motor for example from the UK, I´d need the motor and tranny with the starter, no mounts or gearbox, but it would still have to cost no more than about £1000. To be interesting that is, considering a probable tune up and maybe some parts, and I don´t believe that´s possible. I also have to pay shipping which I believe wont be cheap...

So I guess I´ll have to buy some more lottery tickets

Tommy

grandpaul · Jan 14, 2016

If you can find a good MkIII bottom end for a reasonable amount, you're all set!

gripper · Jan 14, 2016

About 6 months ago a guy in the UK had a low mileage Mk3 engine, gearbox, cradle, swinging arm carbs, and iso's for sale on eBay it didn't reach the reserve of over £2000 but disappeared after being re-listed. I think he was looking for about £2300. Just to give you some idea.

grandpaul · Jan 14, 2016

gripper said:
...a guy in the UK had a low mileage Mk3 engine, ... for sale on eBay ...

They go for less over here.

I've bought and sold complete engines for $1000. In fact, the complete MkIII RUNNING engine with tranny cradle, swingarm and carbs in my Dreer prototype bike cost me a grand. e-start works perfectly.

fiatfan · Jan 14, 2016

This proves it guys; I´m in the wrong place :cry:
Tommy

toppy · Jan 14, 2016

fiatfan said:
This proves it guys; I´m in the wrong place :cry:
Tommy

With prices like that so are some of the rest of us.

ashman · Jan 14, 2016

More Nortons where exported to the US of A than anywhere else so thats why they are cheaper there as well as parts, here in Australia just a complete motor with nothing else goes for around $2,800 to $3,500 with no idea of what condition they are in, sometimes you might get a complete rebuild motor show up so they be way above the high price.

As for the RGM T160 folding kick start, I have had mine for over 5 years now they are longer so you get a better swing on it, my Norton is a high compression hot motor and with the Joe Hunt maggie will start on a full kick when cold and half a kick when warm and always on the first kick, I can start it with ease while sitting on the seat, it made a big diffrents to kicking my motor over and I am 57 years young, I would never go back to the orginal kick starter, in my opinion the T160 kick start are so good.

Ashley

kerinorton · Jan 14, 2016

Hi Tom. When I replaced the Boyer with a Pazon ignition, I ended up being able to start the motor when it was warm by just pushing down on the kick lever instead of giving it the good old jump with the Boyer. I am 64 and a lightweight. Get a T160 lever as well if you need to. Haven't had a problem yet but I guess I might some day.

Dereck

Ps Andy is right about the chains. We have been using IWIS rear drive chains for a while now and compared to other chains, these don't need adjusting [ I recon at the moment the I would have adjusted my Tsubaki chains 4 times by now and haven't adjusted the Iwis at all yet ]

Fast Eddie · Jan 14, 2016

fiatfan said:
Ok people, this was just an idea originated from my lack of money, but shows how little I know. Did not know that there was such big differences when you come "up" to the MKIII. (Note to self: check facts :!: :wink: )
Toppy: I do have sufficient "spanner ability". (Love that expression!)
Eddie: I´ve read a lot about that T160 kickstarter, seems really interesting, does it help much?
I would naturally love to be able to buy the cNw or the Alton conversion, but to me they both cost a serious amount of money, which I don´t have, at the moment anyway. Hope things gets better. If it´s possible to buy a motor for example from the UK, I´d need the motor and tranny with the starter, no mounts or gearbox, but it would still have to cost no more than about £1000. To be interesting that is, considering a probable tune up and maybe some parts, and I don´t believe that´s possible. I also have to pay shipping which I believe wont be cheap... So I guess I´ll have to buy some more lottery tickets
Tommy

Yes Tommy, the T160 kickstart lever makes a worthwhile difference for sure.

chasbmw · Jan 15, 2016

ashman said:
More Nortons where exported to the US of A than anywhere else so thats why they are cheaper there as well as parts, here in Australia just a complete motor with nothing else goes for around $2,800 to $3,500 with no idea of what condition they are in, sometimes you might get a complete rebuild motor show up so they be way above the high price.

As for the RGM T160 folding kick start, I have had mine for over 5 years now they are longer so you get a better swing on it, my Norton is a high compression hot motor and with the Joe Hunt maggie will start on a full kick when cold and half a kick when warm and always on the first kick, I can start it with ease while sitting on the seat, it made a big diffrents to kicking my motor over and I am 57 years young, I would never go back to the orginal kick starter, in my opinion the T160 kick start are so good.

Ashley

+1. Makes a really worthwhile difference, so much easier to turn the engine over at a fast rate which helps getting the fire started. Usually 1st Kick, no sweat and no bother especially when you have an audience!

Electric starter conversion

fiatfan

toppy

Fast Eddie

grandpaul

bsaboss

grandpaul

L.A.B.

Moderator

norton73

Jerry Doe

andychain

fiatfan

grandpaul

gripper

grandpaul

fiatfan

toppy

ashman

kerinorton

Fast Eddie

chasbmw

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