Drum brake

Hi Expert's

I have the old T.L.S front brake is there any benefit fitting the stiffening kit and the longer opperating arm ?

Many thanks

Davy

I don't know, but have been pondering the same question. My thought was send my shoes to the folks at Vintage Brake and have them fit their super friction material and turn the shoes to match the drum diameter. I believe it was cheaper too. You may want to consider that option also.

Vintage brake is good if you can wait 4 months.... Or close to 6!!!
Philippe

If you want to stop from 70mph sometime this week, the stiffening kit would be a good start. I became very familiar with the deficiencies in the original 2LS brake during pre-production testing of the prototypes when I did some deflection tests using a special kind of lacquer that cracks when it deforms a few thousandths.

I was amazed when the Commando went into production without it being fixed, but the Italian manufacturer (Campagnolo?) figured Norton was such a small-production customer that they "couldn't be bothered" to re-design it. I guess product deficiency lawsuits weren't as common in 1968 as they are now!

Frank,

Will you be at Lumby in 2010? Would like to engage in Commando conversation and would give me more motivation to get up there.

The stiffening kit and longer arm help a little...in hindsight, probably not worth the cost. Making sure the arms are adjusted correctly, having the plate centered in the drum, and having a good cable make more of a positive difference.

First off, where is Lumby? It's not a place I'm familiar with. Secondly, the brake backplate is definitely structurally deficient. What my tests found is that, at a certain point in brake lever travel, any further force applied or lever moved doesn't increase the force on the brake shoes - it all goes into distorting the backplate.

Frankly, I've never seen the stiffener kit, so I can't be absolutely sure that it fixes the overall problem, and the photos of the brittle-lacquer testing are probably long gone. I wouldn't think the longer actuating arm would help without the stiffening kit, as it was distortion of the backplate that was the fundamental problem.

Long-term, putting safety above originality, I'd be tempted to go with one of the many post-production disc-brake conversions. Yeah, they're not cheap, but being able to stop in the next 5 seconds, rather than sometime today, maybe, definitely has its good points.

The purists/concours specialists that want to see everything kept as the factory originally delivered must not be regular riders. The Commando is too good a basis for updating as a reliable daily rider to get too wrapped up in "originality". A lot of the enthusiast modifications I've been exposed to on this forum would have made the bike a world-beater if Norton-Villiers hadn't been so skimpily funded and stuck with top management so divorced from motorcycle realities.

I put in a proposal during my last few months at N-V for what turned out to be a Gold Wing, though I had no idea Honda was thinking that way. Shot down in flames because there "was no money for that kind of pipe dream!" (and I think I was too far down the pecking order to have any credibility).

Such is life, I guess.

frankdamp said:

First off, where is Lumby? It's not a place I'm familiar with.

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It's up in Canada, home of the 2010 INOA Rally.

Probably not that far from where you are, although still a bit of a drive/ride.

Dave:

I looked up Lumby, BC on Google Earth and mapped it. It's close to 350 miles from home, so I probably won't go. What are the dates?

frankdamp said:

Frankly, I've never seen the stiffener kit, so I can't be absolutely sure that it fixes the overall problem, and the photos of the brittle-lacquer testing are probably long gone. I wouldn't think the longer actuating arm would help without the stiffening kit, as it was distortion of the backplate that was the fundamental problem.

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Stiffening kit: http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/063410.htm

It's interesting that Norvil says the stiffener is to counteract "thermal" distortion. There may be some of that if you work the brake pretty hard, but what I found with the brittle lacquer tests was a fundamental structural deficiency in the backplate.

It's a long time ago now, and I can't remember where the distortion occurred, but I think it caused the backplate to "dish" inwards, effectively moving the actuating cams towards each other and limiting the force applied to the shoes.

frankdamp said:

Dave:

I looked up Lumby, BC on Google Earth and mapped it. It's close to 350 miles from home, so I probably won't go. What are the dates?

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I'm not Dave, but I can answer your question, Frank! :lol:

Dates are July 20 through 24, 2010. Rally website link: http://www.bmoc.ca/Nortorious.html

350 miles doesn't sound bad at all. It's about 1400 miles for me, so I probably won't be going.

You really should go if you can, Frank. I've been to two of them and they're a lot of fun.

Debby

Fit the stiffening kit. Its the best money I ever spent on my Commando. It makes a drum brake work better than the original Norton disc brake. There is a thread on the old forum in which I said the same. Don't think twice about it. The extended arm is also worthwhile but if you only do one thing make it the stiffening kit. Of course, make sure tha cable and linkages are also in good condition

debby said:

frankdamp said:

Dave:

I looked up Lumby, BC on Google Earth and mapped it. It's close to 350 miles from home, so I probably won't go. What are the dates?

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I'm not Dave, but I can answer your question, Frank! :lol:

Debby

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Let's see: M49, Commando... grow your hair out a little and trade out one of those X chromosomes and you could be me. :mrgreen:

Only you can be you, Dave! :mrgreen:

Hi
fitted the stiffening plate longer arms new cableJohnson with stronger sheathing new shoes skimmed to suit the skimmed hub by Supreme Motorcycles.
Locks up a Commando front end if required. Maybe a larger section front tyre next?all the best Chris

debby said:

Only you can be you, Dave! :mrgreen:

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There are more than a few people who are glad of that.

Chris said:

Hi
fitted the stiffening plate longer arms new cableJohnson with stronger sheathing new shoes skimmed to suit the skimmed hub by Supreme Motorcycles.
Locks up a Commando front end if required. Maybe a larger section front tyre next?all the best Chris

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Tell me more about this "cablejohnson", I have been looking for a front drum-brake cable (no switch) but a stronger "Johnson" sounds good to me!

Unclviny

T Johnson Cables GB 5 Laburnham Grove Banbury Oxfordshire OX16 9DP Tel: 01295 250430

Bit far for Texas

They make std and custom cables.

Hi
thanks for posting T Johnsons cable. Love that line "a stronger Johnson"
Anyway I had cables made for my Robinson racing drum brake & they work better because the "bendix?" outer sheathing does not collapse / compress like standard outer sheathing does. Not megga expensive. I buy all my fittings from this firm & have done for donkeys years, as I have always made my own cables. However mine bore no comparison to there specials.
all the best Chris