Comnoz oil testing revisited

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jbruney said:
Well you guys have chipped away at my confidence in the GTX sufficiently to where I'm moving to the Belray EXP 20-50. The only issue I have is that I really like the can the Castrol Classic comes in. It clouds my judgement somewhat, but I believe I'm sticking with the move to the Belray.

After we're all long gone those cans shall one day end up on some shelves for collectors to display.
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I thought the GTX tested rather well considering the price point. BelRay is about double the price. My oil becomes black so fast, I am actually swapping back to it until I get the engine rebuilt. (GTX).
 
If you look at the tests themselves you will see some oils get dark faster than others. Some is likely blowby discolouration and some is the oil
getting cooked. I notice that the Castrol seems to get darker rather quickly and my engine is low time and tight. So it says to me change
at 1500 miles or less.
 
I just got a note from Mike at Walridge, he's ordered a few cases of Castrol Classic 20/50 from England, so it looks like we'll have a North American source for this stuff
 
kommando said:
Castrol beat Mobil in the court case that allowed the use of lower base oils type III to be called fully synthetic not only type IV. So never buying Castrol is one of my rules.
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That was a shame the Castrol was allowed to get away with calling class 4 petroleum a synthetic.
 
That was odd, I just did a quick oil change on a not a Norton with Royal Purple XPR 10w40.... My flex funnel has a gauze strainer and that oil would not flow through it so had to pour it back into the bottle, the gauze was covered with gel like particles.
Some form of additive in the oil that must have come out of suspension, gave it a good shake and in it went with the funnel gauze removed, that was a first.
 
Time Warp said:
That was odd, I just did a quick oil change on a not a Norton with Royal Purple XPR 10w40.... My flex funnel has a gauze strainer and that oil would not flow through it so had to pour it back into the bottle, the gauze was covered with gel like particles.
Some form of additive in the oil that must have come out of suspension, gave it a good shake and in it went with the funnel gauze removed, that was a first.
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I've seen it before with Amsoil Dominator 2=cycle oil.... that had sat for several years. Raspberry sauce. Quite disturbing really, seeing as how there is a fine filter between the oil injection tank and the oil injection pump on all the sleds.
 
Time Warp said:
That was odd, I just did a quick oil change on a not a Norton with Royal Purple XPR 10w40.... My flex funnel has a gauze strainer and that oil would not flow through it so had to pour it back into the bottle, the gauze was covered with gel like particles.
Some form of additive in the oil that must have come out of suspension, gave it a good shake and in it went with the funnel gauze removed, that was a first.
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I was changing the oil on a ZZR1100 and was in a hurry as I was catching a ferry. It was almost up to level and as the last of the oil went in, there was a slight stutter to the pour as if there was something thicker coming out. Anyway the level was up and I needed to leave so I didn't investigate.

About three days later just outside Barcelona, I was at a junction and I saw the oil light flash on, bringing the revs up made it go out but remembering the stutter when pouring the oil, I bought some STP oil additive and after that was in the engine I couldn't get the light to come back on even if I lowered the tickover.

When I got back home I poured what was left of the oil from the can into a glass jar and it looked like it was half grease and half oil. I guessed that the oil additive package had separated out whilst on the shelf.

The oil was a synthetic Motul and since then I always shake the can before an oil change.
 
I admit to finding the oil testing article and tables thoroughly confusing. I don't understand the 'heat from friction' thing, or how the 'scar' is detected on the 'follower' while the engine is running (it says the tests are stopped when a scar is formed on the follower) - or even exactly what 'the follower' refers to? Can't be a cam follower can it? How would you see what's happening to a cam follower without stopping and dismantling? Am I being as stupid as I feel writing this?

If I decide to skip trying to understand all this and simply go to the tables, I find these confusing too. Can it really be the case that Comma Classic 20/50 performs better than Silkolene Comp 4 20/50 (to give one example of surprising comparisons).

Maybe I'm interpreting the basic meaning of the tables wrongly, in that I'm assuming that the oils nearest the top in each table are the best with those at the lower end being the worst? And the oils in the first table are the best of all, with each table after that being progressively lower in terms of performance in a Commando engine?

Any help in understanding all this would be much appreciated!

EDIT: I've already learned what the scar testing method is via the link at the top of the article, which has worked this time! Last time I clicked it I got nothing. Maybe if I read the whole thread my questions will be answered?
 
Best oil , best bang for the buck, best for your particular situation.
...and the winner is?
 
It does seem odd, to me, that some oils have heat 'scores' of zero and close to zero. Not really understanding exactly what's being measured and how doesn't help my poor brain.
 
Living in a cool climate you dont have to worry as much about heat from friction. But then there is going to be that day in traffic in the city and
the temps are abnormally high and then you might be in a tight spot.
Meanwhile I have gone with Castrol 20-50 "classic" stuff available at a fairly reasonable price here in the UK.
 
Time Warp said:
That was odd, I just did a quick oil change on a not a Norton with Royal Purple XPR 10w40.... My flex funnel has a gauze strainer and that oil would not flow through it so had to pour it back into the bottle, the gauze was covered with gel like particles.
Some form of additive in the oil that must have come out of suspension, gave it a good shake and in it went with the funnel gauze removed, that was a first.
Click to expand...

Hmm...is this a new oil discussion? COOL! :)

At my last change I used the Royal Purple but didn't have any trouble pouring it through a screen...my funnel doesn't have one. So hope the additive package mixed itself well enough in the tank!
 
Tigernut said:
................ Maybe if I read the whole thread my questions will be answered?
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Maybe, but the key here is that the oils were rated on suitability for the application...The Norton Commando engine....in various conditions, including state of tune and intended use.....

The key revelation is that modern mass market oils are designed and optimised for a different application, mainly water cooled motors using different designs and materials.

Most likely it will be a product designed for niche markets that meets the needs of people running 40 year old air cooled motorcycles. This shows in the tests.

Second major consideration is that the oil brand sold 40 years ago and still sold today is not necessarily to the same formula it was 40 years ago.

This is the great value of the work Jim did, todays products in our application(s).

The major feedback we were able to give wasn't scientific, it was identifying that not all of the niche oils are universally available or affordable, there is lot of stuff I cannot get in France for example. I think this last is as important when making a decision on oil purchase.

The oil that is good for you tootling around on a spring Sunday in the northern UK, will probably not be good for me racing in July or September in the South of France. You probably don't need to spend as much on a suitable oil as I do or change it as often.

(note....French classic series does not have a round in August!......so we go to Belgium!)
 
SteveA said:
Maybe, but the key here is that the oils were rated on suitability for the application...The Norton Commando engine....in various conditions, including state of tune and intended use.....

The key revelation is that modern mass market oils are designed and optimised for a different application, mainly water cooled motors using different designs and materials.

Most likely it will be a product designed for niche markets that meets the needs of people running 40 year old air cooled motorcycles. This shows in the tests.

Second major consideration is that the oil brand sold 40 years ago and still sold today is not necessarily to the same formula it was 40 years ago.

This is the great value of the work Jim did, todays products in our application(s).

The major feedback we were able to give wasn't scientific, it was identifying that not all of the niche oils are universally available or affordable, there is lot of stuff I cannot get in France for example. I think this last is as important when making a decision on oil purchase.

The oil that is good for you tootling around on a spring Sunday in the northern UK, will probably not be good for me racing in July or September in the South of France. You probably don't need to spend as much on a suitable oil as I do or change it as often.

(note....French classic series does not have a round in August!......so we go to Belgium!)
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I do most of my riding in the south of France actually, usually in July and August and with quite a lot of miles on A roads. The A75 can get extremely hot from around Millau southward, to the point where maximum speed becomes necessary for my own air-cooling more than that of the engine! Nothing like the stresses of racing of course, but a lot more than northern English Sunday tootling. This is where having an oil that can be relied on is important. I have used Silkolene Comp 4 20/50 until last summer when I switched to Motul 10/60 in the hope it would get burned less quickly (it did go down more slowly).

But these choices were made in ignorance of these tests. It looks as if the Motul oil may not be very good at all, and also, as if the Silkolene is no better than cheapo Comma 20/50 - which seems amazing, but certainly worth knowing.
 
Bit of a no brainier to me, unless you wanna re do the testing over again, Jim’s done the hard work for you and given that you clearly need a high degree of protection you need only look at the first page IMHO.

Unless you want to import oil and / or additives from the US, the two best options in the UK are:

Belray 10w50 V Twin synthetic (really high load capacity)
Royal Purple HPS 20w50 (slightly lower load capacity but really low heat)

I chose the Belray as I like the belt n brace load capacity.

As you are concerned about heat, you may wish to look to the Royal Purple.
 
Tigernut, I assume A75 = R3 (rather than one of those 750 A65s)?

I ran Silkolene in a R3 and after one weekend of track day malarkey the brand new oil had degraded to the point the oil light was on.

Much panic about the bottom end being shot etc was eventually put to bed by simply changing the oil!

Not used the stuff since.
 
The Titanic got Mobil 1 20W50 V-twin synthetic to break in the new pistons, rings and bore. Very limited mileage so far, but no smoke, so it must be ok. Hastings rings on the +.060 Emgo pistons. .004" skirt clearance set up.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Tigernut, I assume A75 = R3 (rather than one of those 750 A65s)?

I ran Silkolene in a R3 and after one weekend of track day malarkey the brand new oil had degraded to the point the oil light was on.

Much panic about the bottom end being shot etc was eventually put to bed by simply changing the oil!

Not used the stuff since.
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It is a road! I have ridden in. It is bloody hot in August.

I did it on an air cooled 1200 Yamaha....two piece leathers but the jacket strapped on the luggage.....
 
Fast Eddie said:
Bit of a no brainier to me, unless you wanna re do the testing over again, Jim’s done the hard work for you and given that you clearly need a high degree of protection you need only look at the first page IMHO.

Unless you want to import oil and / or additives from the US, the two best options in the UK are:

Belray 10w50 V Twin synthetic (really high load capacity)
Royal Purple HPS 20w50 (slightly lower load capacity but really low heat)

I chose the Belray as I like the belt n brace load capacity.

As you are concerned about heat, you may wish to look to the Royal Purple.
Click to expand...

But it will be difficult to get in the South of France, Motul 7000 MA2 20w50 doesn't rate too badly in Jim's test and is (of course) readily available in France. (it is sold as a V Twin oil, but that only seems to show on the package!)

I am using it in my Yamaha single! But am still planning Rel Ray for the Norton. Other French racers have been using Motul 300V 15w50 for years and are unlikely to change.
 
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