Comnoz oil testing revisited

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worntorn

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I've used up my stock of VR1 and went back to Jim's list to see what oil might be a better choice.
One conventional oil that tested extremely well is Castrol Classic XL 20/50 . It load tested at 331 lbs.
For a conventional oil it is very low friction too, at 1.94 heat.
Reading Castrol's blurb its clear that it was made specifically for our type of engine.
Price is very reasonable at 25 GBP for an Imperial gallon, 4.55 litres .
Only problem is I cannot find this oil anywhere in North America.
Fortunately we do have Royal Purple HPS 20/50 (457lb, .44 heat) at a reasonable price, $12.50 cdn per us qt, or the Belray exp semi-synthetic (400lbs, 4.37 heat), also an affordable option at about $55 cdn for 5 litres.
If it was available , I would use the Castrol Classic, it sounds ideal and the(UK )price is right too .

https://www.castrol.com/en_gb/united-kingdom/products/cars/classic-oils/classic-engine-oils.html

Glen
 
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Glen
Agree with your selections for 20w50 grade. In the UK the Royal Purple and Bel Ray oils you mention are roughly double the price of the Castrol Classic XL 20/50. For me the XL was the 'star of the show' and it was good to see one Brit oil doing well - many didn't.

Perhaps we should try lobbying Castrol over 'the pond'. However, the brand is I think currently owned by BP who don't have the best reputation stateside after Deepwater Horizon :oops::eek:

I have the XL in my 750 Roadster for this season. Just need to save up for some new tyres since I deciphered the date codes on my Avon Roadrunners as 1992 (rear) and either 1987 or 1977 (front)!

Andy
 
According to Jim's results (many thanks again !), I had ordered 20 liters of Castrol xl classic (in Germany)and 5 liters of Bel Ray v twin (in Spain), none of them are available in France at decent prices , still have 10 liters of Redline 20w50 which I don' t know what to do (in the car ???......)
 
Well dont forget the Castrol comes in those lovely green tins just like way back when! Id say a better choice of oil and cheaper in the states but
on this side of the Salty Divide the XL looks like the way to go. Just have to hope it is as good as we think it is. Perhaps change at 1500 miles
would not hurt.
Quite warmish today here in the way west...saw a few classics out and about.
 
Worntorn & DevonNorton
I have used both these oils, the Castrol XL 20w 50 for running in and the Belray EXP 20w 50 after run in.
Castrol 4.55 litres for £28-£29 online from Opie and others, BelRay EXP 4.0 litres £34.37 from Quadbikes in Swansea, both include delivery. Commiserations for lack of North American availability Worntorn but you might want to consider a move to leafy Surrey....
I change oil and filter, run the bike as normal and top up as required until the remainder of the 4 litres is finished, then it,s usually time for an oil and filter change again.

Castrol XL is also good in the Mk3 primary case to lube the starter mechanism but would be a great normal use oil specially if you run an oil cooler and thermostat.
 
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KiwiNeill said:
Worntorn & DevonNorton
I have used both these oils, the Castrol XL 20w 50 for running in and the Belray EXP 20w 50 after run in.
Castrol 4.55 litres for £28-£29 online from Opie and others, BelRay EXP 4.0 litres £34.37 from Quadbikes in Swansea. Commiserations for lack of North American availability Worntorn but you might want to consider a move to leafy Surrey....
I change oil and filter, run the bike as normal and top up as required until the remainder of the 4 litres is finished, then it,s usually time for an oil and filter change again.

Castrol XL is also good in the Mk3 primary case to lube the starter mechanism but would be a great normal use oil specially if you run an oil cooler and thermostat.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up ref the Bel Ray 20/50.
I'd looked all over for a supplier at a decent price.
Now I got one, just ordered a can.
cheers
sam
 
I see Castrol also offers a dedicated Run-in oil in the Classic lineup.

Btw Rimmer Bros UK show the Classic xl 20/50 or monogrades at 24gbp , however that is ex vat.

I grew up in leafy Surrey, BC, still no Castrol XL in sight there :)

Glen
 
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"Castrol Running-In Oil 2 is a mineral based multigrade crankcase lubricant designed to facilitate running-in of new and reconditioned diesel and petrol engines."

Product Data Sheet

Reading the Data sheet gives me the impression that it is bean oil.
That and the product designation is R40, so maybe it's just Castrol R in 40 weight being labelled and used as running in oil?

Glen
 
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worntorn said:
"Castrol Running-In Oil 2 is a mineral based multigrade crankcase lubricant designed to facilitate running-in of new and reconditioned diesel and petrol engines."

Product Data Sheet

Reading the Data sheet gives me the impression that it is bean oil.
That and the product designation is R40, so maybe it's just Castrol R in 40 weight being labelled and used as running in oil?

Glen
Click to expand...
I think Castrol sent us chasing a red herring with their link to Bio R40 which is a metal forming bean oil. The link below shows the correct Castrol running-in oil TDS for diesel and gas engines.

https://eshop.diermeier-energie.de/...540/4E1E/3099/7170/AC1E/0602/90A3/1733923.pdf
 
Next question is then does it matter, ie , is it worth using?
 
Running in oil allows the freshly machined surfaces to bed in quickly, not needed in modern engines with closer tolerances and finer machined surfaces but definitely needed on old engines with parts distorting at different temps and rough honing. As it is I just go for a plain 20/50 with high zddp rather than a dedicated running in oil for the first 1500 miles, changed frequently.
 
...and just how does the oil allow for this and still protect from seizure due to high heat in areas of too close or even just close tolerance? Would not
a really good oil do better. I think this is the approach Jim Comstock now uses.
 
If you use a fully synthetic from the start as do current engines the rings will never bed in, not enough wear to get good sealing, it's a fine line between an oil that gets the wear done that gives the right surface finish for longevity and seizure hence the need for throttle limits when running in, which are also no longer needed on modern engines.
 
That's true, most modern engines do not require an rpm limited run in, however Triumph dictates a long and very deliberate rpm limited break in procedure on all of their new bikes.

They also claim to be manufactured to closer tolerances than the big Japanese brands.

I'm not sure if they use a break in oil.



Glen
 
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Well you guys have chipped away at my confidence in the GTX sufficiently to where I'm moving to the Belray EXP 20-50. The only issue I have is that I really like the can the Castrol Classic comes in. It clouds my judgement somewhat, but I believe I'm sticking with the move to the Belray.

After we're all long gone those cans shall one day end up on some shelves for collectors to display.
 
Castrol beat Mobil in the court case that allowed the use of lower base oils type III to be called fully synthetic not only type IV. So never buying Castrol is one of my rules.
 
On the Forum’s “Comnoz Oil Test Page” there were a couple conventional “break-in” oils tested – Driven BR 15W-50 and Motul 10W-40 Break-in oil. A feature common to both these oils was the high total heat from friction (in the range of 6-7). As Comnoz pointed out previously, there are several other conventional oils tested that provide similar load capacity and high heat from friction. Jim cited one example, not labeled as a break-in oil, that he perceived to be a good candidate for break-in - Castrol GTX 20W-50 conventional.


Motul 10W-40 Break-in Oil - load 140 lb, heat from friction 7.3

Driven BR 15W-50 Conventional Break-in Oil – load 163 lb, heat from friction 6.5

Castrol GTX 20W-50 Conventional – load 257 lb, heat from friction 7.7
 
Most of the specific run-in oils I tested looked like they would be suitable in a water cooled engine but the load capacity went away quickly at air cooled engine temperatures.

The only time I have seen ring seating problems in a Norton has been when using Total Seal rings along with Mobil 1 v-twin during the first miles. I suspect any low friction oil might cause seating problems with this type of ring.

I have not seen any ring seating problems with any oil in a Norton when using conventional rings. Jim
 
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