Commando weave

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MexicoMike said:
Covid is making me more of a curmudgeon than usual (as I've been advised by someone right here in the house)! ;)
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Well you’re hardly alone there !

You‘re right though, that is a surprisingly long list for ant anti-upgrader ;)

Mike, we had a ‘healthy chat’ without resorting to name calling and dragging the thread into the gutter like they often are. All good in my book.
 
So... back to the Commando weave.... :rolleyes:

All my bikes have been restorations, so arguably everything per factory - although one had a DT headsteady, Lansdowne forks and Ikon rear shocks.
Otherwise, stock wheels etc.
I had 2 850s, both had new (soft modern compound) 4.10H 18 TT100s for that 'period correct' look.
Neither of them ever got into a weave, although they did tramline a lot due to the soft compound not really being best friends with the TT100 tread design.
That said, once in the twisties they gripped just great, but didn't last too long. I think I did for a rear tyre in around 1500 miles; similar to Mich Hi-Sports on my old Duc 851...
My Combat was fitted with new TT100s, but the front was a 3.60H19 and it weaved like a weavey thing.
I changed it to a 4.10H19 TT100 and the weaving was much reduced. It didn't altogether disappear, but it became occasional rather than regular - more of a subtle thing which was quite tolerable.

From this I concluded that a wider front tyre definitely helped (no fooling :)), and the 750 geometry made for a slightly more nervous handling bike than the 850.
As a relaxing mile-eater the 850 wins, but for the grin factor give me a Combat any day!
Very different characters all round.

I believe riding position and rider weight have a part to play, but one 850 and the Combat were both Interstates, so still a fair comparison.

Worth noting that the first bikes had a 3.00 front and a 3.50 rear tyre. My current '70 Roadster has this fit and handles like a 250cc bike. due to the current situation it hasn't been on the open road yet, so I can't comment on its finer handling qualities yet.
 
B+Bogus said:
although they did tramline a lot due to the soft compound not really being best friends with the TT100 tread design.
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I had TT100's on my 850 when I bought it in 83, it tramlined in grooves and gave a weird hinged feeling going over whitelines so bad I changed to Avon Road runners and threw the nearly new TT100's in the bin. I doubt the soft compound was being used then so I think it was just the tread design that was the issue.
 
kommando said:
I had TT100's on my 850 when I bought it in 83, it tramlined in grooves and gave a weird hinged feeling going over whitelines so bad I changed to Avon Road runners and threw the nearly new TT100's in the bin. I doubt the soft compound was being used then so I think it was just the tread design that was the issue.
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Funnily enough, the Combat Roadster I'm currently staring at (i.e. should be rebuilding but not getting my finger out just yet) has a pair of new Avon Roadrunners in a modern compound, so it'll be an interesting comparison.
I initially found the TT100s squirming around quite alarming, then just slightly worrying, but I quickly got used to it - now it's all just part of that 'Full Classic' experience, or something...
 
My first Commando , a 72 Combat interstate , used to weave terribly at around 85 just like in Kommando's movie. First time it happened I didn't know what to do and gassed it up to a ton and the weave went away, you can imagine how it was ridden after that. The worst bike I ever had for weaving was a K model Suzuki GSXR 1100, it was awful, and after having an original slabside that was a great bike , I got rid in no time.
 
Lets face facts regarding many of the modifications we do to our Commandos. Norton would have built them this way if the parts had been available back then, & if they had been able to sell them for a sensible price & still make a profit. Norton built bikes to a price just the same as Honda did. The only difference was the later had modern designs made with modern machinery.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Yeah, modern compound tires, EI, improved suspension, brake mods, featherlite cables, LED bulbs, electric starts. They’re all bollox right... I mean, it’s not like the industry has moved on in the last 50 years is it... :rolleyes:

Also, I believe the Norton that was weaving like a basket maker in that video, had stock wheels, tires, shocks, etc...
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He stipulates 'Street Ridden'.

I would go with a lot of the items on your list, particularly since it doesn't include rim sizes, but I also find this included list of items questionable when it comes to 'need' ....lighter clutches, stronger gearboxes, belt drives....

A lot of riders don't need them for their weekend ride and would spend money more wisely elsewhere, getting the basics up to required settings! Things like wheel alignment, isos, head steadies and frame alignment will deliver a bigger bang for the buck!

But for the more demanding rider like yourself who also takes in an amount of track time, yes of course those parts can be a benefit too alongside a range of engine, carb and exhaust options the average owner really doesn't need. I know you get great pleasure from fitting something and comparing it with something else, but that is a personal need, and little to do with what is needed to simply enjoy some twisty roads!

:)
 
Absolutely Steve, NONE of the areas of potential improvement are NEEDED.

But that wasn’t the debate. The debate was does ‘modernising’ those areas constitute upgrade or downgrade.

To my mind they’re areas that can be upgraded pure and simple. Does everyone want such upgrades? No. But they’re still upgrades.
 
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I went with new Buchannan spokes on original wheels, (trued up) and new Avon rubber R/Runner 410H19 TT - S/Master350S19. Suspension was overhauled with components, springs, seals, shocks, renewed to spec.
The small weave issue I encountered early was negated by an adjustment of tire pressure. Now its 0 - 100 no weave.
I am a recreational/weekend rider without any need for "performance" changes or upgrades so factory specs remained my reference during restoration while following the recommendations of the local bike shop owner who used to race Nortons and Triumphs.
He could have pushed for upgrades and made money on it but leaned on me to keep the KISS method in order.
"You can always upgrade later if you want". Good advice for me.
 
My 74 850 currently has 120/90/18 rear and 100/90/19 front [ BT45's ]
It handles well on all types of roads & conditions .
I have had a commando for 40 years with different wheels & tyres , sometimes with weave & sometimes not .
I believe alignment is critical , tyres make a difference & iso's play a part .
I think the main problem is that the iso's allow some flex & therefore small things can have a profound effect on handling .
Push / pull pressure on the bars , for me a slight push seems best & sitting on or just behind the seat knobs works for me .
Even a flapping jacket can cause a slight weave sometimes . my worst experience was with 19" TT100's front & rear , there is a bump in the road on my regular ride to town on a corner , a few times at around 60mph I hit that bump & induced a weave that had the potential to kill me . Very scary .
That has not happened in its current set up , aprox 2 years .
The next time I pull the bike down I will fit a stabiliser rod to the rear of the cradle , I can see that it could be a very good mod for a commando .
 
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Must confess am puzzled . Mine has never 'weaved' but I am 6ft + and have clip ons and long arms . So maybe rider physique and position has something to do with it .. I have always made sure the tyre and wheels are meticulously balanced.. whether this is a contributory factor or not I do not know . The point is that if any motorcycles willweave the trick is surely to ensure it does so outside its usable speed range
 
Riding position certainly has an effect. I'm also of the slightly taller persuasion, and laid back riding positions serve to keep the weight off the front wheel, and more so the faster it gets.
 
Would fitting a decent steering damper be an upgrade ? As I remember it, the Commando swing arm pivot mounts to the rear of the engine/gearbox cradle and might flex the plates, even when the isos are correctl;y adjusted.
 
oldmikew said:
Must confess am puzzled . Mine has never 'weaved' but I am 6ft + and have clip ons and long arms . So maybe rider physique and position has something to do with it .. I have always made sure the tyre and wheels are meticulously balanced.. whether this is a contributory factor or not I do not know . The point is that if any motorcycles willweave the trick is surely to ensure it does so outside its usable speed range
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Never had any weaving or wobbles on my Triumphs or Nortons. Knock wood?
I sold my 1977 KZ1000 to a co-worker in 1978. The bike had maybe 7000 miles on it when he crashed it on a straight, wide road a few months later. The bike had never exhibited any similar behavior in my hands. This video provides a plausible answer. I'm 6-2 and was about 200lb then; he was about 5-10 and 170-180lb.
 
Back in 1976 or 1977 I bought my firsrt 1974 850 Commando. It was pretty much as it left the works, being totaly standard and unmolested.
Being a poor, skint student I ran the tyres down to the threads. When the rear tyre had low or almost non existant tread the Commando did
not weave as such, but felt less secure. Putting on a new rear tyre brought the handling back to normal. However....

The local bad boy bikers, greasers, hell cherubs and general ner-do-wells hung out in one of the pubs in the small village where I grew up, I was
there most nights. Less than half a mile away was a very posh, very expensive private school for posh young ladies. Some of the rather nice young
ladies were prone to go to the pub to rough it.....

Via extensive scientific study I found that small, petite young ladies improved the handling of my Commando when riding pillion. Heavy young ladies
messed up the suspension settings, tall ones affected the aerodynamics and well endowed ones moved their weight too far back.

Looking back from my now geriatric and sober age it would have been far cheaper to buy new tyres sooner rather than the vast quantities of Babycham,
Malibu & pineapple, Bacardi & coke to entice the posh young ladies.....but what fun would have been missed

I'm not sure it is possible to lure young, petite ladies onto your pillion to improve the handling these days without getting arrested :(
 
Staytite said:
Via extensive scientific study I found that small, petite young ladies improved the handling of my Commando when riding pillion. Heavy young ladies
messed up the suspension settings, tall ones affected the aerodynamics and well endowed ones moved their weight too far back.
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I concur with your study. My favorite pillion when I first got my Norton was (literally) the girl next door. A petite teenager who was a superb passenger and the Norton never knew she was there. My sister is a tall girl, and had no sense of balance at all. It was all I could do to stay upright with her on board. The girl I eventually married was a large woman and though I had to adjust the Girlings to accommodate her, she never induced weave (though I certainly avoided high speeds).

Brilliant observation, good fellow.
 
maylar said:
I concur with your study. My favorite pillion when I first got my Norton was (literally) the girl next door. A petite teenager who was a superb passenger and the Norton never knew she was there. My sister is a tall girl, and had no sense of balance at all. It was all I could do to stay upright with her on board. The girl I eventually married was a large woman and though I had to adjust the Girlings to accommodate her, she never induced weave (though I certainly avoided high speeds).

Brilliant observation, good fellow.
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The weight on the rear of the bike causes squat which changes the rake on the steering head and alters the handling. Spring adjustment on the rear shocks is important. If the back goes down, the bike cam self-steer.
 
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