Commando rephasing?

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speirmoor

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Has this ever been attempted on a Commando? Ive picked up on the subject on the xs650 forum and found it interesting when it was stated that it helps with vibration issues.Were isolastics a better idea or is it impossible on a Commando motor?
 
The Yammie XS crankshaft is very different to the Commando, It has 4 main bearings for the crankshaft alone, in that each con-rod has its own pair of small flywheels with a main bearing on either side, that is one each in the outer case and 2 side by side in the centre of the crankcase. The crankshaft centre is a spline fitting to combine the inner flywheels and this is simply pulled apart, rotated and refitted at 72 or 90 degrees depending on what you want from the motor. Because of the centre crank bearing support and 2 smaller flywheels the primary and secondary vibration effects are quite different to the Commando with its one massive flywheel.

The Iso frame was designed to cater to the out of balance forces with 60 - 62 % balance factor, mainly to provide a fore and aft effect so there would be little advantage to use the 90 degree crank version in the Iso frame. However, there is considerable history of many British twins re-phased in rigid frames, with improvement in primary balance and possibly torque characteristics, being similar to a Ducati or Guzzi. The disadvantage is that Commando big end journals remain seperate , i.e. spaced apart not common as on the Ducati so a rocking couple effect happens - drive and timing shaft extremities alternately want to go up and down. That potentially might be all wrong for an Iso frame as side to side vibration but may not be a problem in a Featherbed or other rigid design.

Mick
 
speirmoor said:
Has this ever been attempted on a Commando? Ive picked up on the subject on the xs650 forum and found it interesting when it was stated that it helps with vibration issues.Were isolastics a better idea or is it impossible on a Commando motor?

Interesting but by the time you get done it'd probably be cheaper to...

(that's the Jim Schmidt queue)

...use the lighter piston/rod combination.
 
Not wanting to high jack this thread but, would it be possible to fit a balance shaft externally where the old maggie fitted, if it could work? Chain or gear driven, plenty of room I assume? Quite possibly alot of stuffing around for little gain, but Im just curious on the theory front??
Foxy
 
A proper balance shaft with enough counterweight to do any good would likely have to be supported at both ends with a bearing. Otherwise the effect of the weight on the drive end would probably have the shaft whipping about and destroying whatever it was connected to.
 
Great answers.How is the timing affected by this of is it left alone?
 
Hehe,
main reason anyone seeks offset cranks in Commando is because
un-tamed isolastic Commando become dangerous if using all
their power in leaned over sweepers. Tighten up isolastics
enough not to add to the chassis-tire conflicts known as
THE Hinge in Cdo circles, and frame vibes to pilot till it fractures.
Solid mounted engines in sturdier frames are used and that
transmits engine too harsh back on pilot.

So has followed all the hi 80's Balance Factors and offset cranks
with offset cams and ignitions systems to suffer a bit less
vibration from the side-side imbalances, plus the clatter-y
sense of the valve train, that is felt all too well after 30 min.

Now if a smoothie isolastic Commando could handle both
hi engine power range and cornering loads, plus dampen
further the wide spaced 360' traction pulses,
then why spoil its special qualities with solid engine mount.
Isolastics don't absorb side to side oscillations,even tiny ones.

hobot
 
speirmoor said:
Great answers.How is the timing affected by this of is it left alone?

The camshaft has to be re-phased which in itself is a tricky job but the timing (electronic) is a bit easier as you can adapt or modify another model. Timing for ignition BTDC should be the same as that is a function of the combustion process.

Mick
 
The Rephased crank works just fine in isolastics. At idle, it's lope makes it move in the front mount a little more than stock then become smooth with revs like the stock one.
There is something to be said for power delivery, the rephased Norton will have the pulse and feel of a 1000 V twin, and have more roll-on torque with less flywheel wieght. I had Nortons since 1968, love the low end grunt and mid range rush, rephasing gives you more of the same...differently.
 
Intriguing report highway, if its adds punch and still smooths out, wonderful.
Lighter crank needed is educational to me too.
Geoff Collins is selling enough of his offset cranks to expand into cams
and electrics they need.

hobot
 
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