Clutch problem

Status
Not open for further replies.

Robb2013

Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
102
I started hooking up my clutch cable today, and noticed I wasn't getting any spring tension coming back on the cable when I pulled on the clutch. I took off the outer cover and removed the clutch release body... with the ball bearing and the clutch release arm inside... revealing a long rod that runs horizontally through the engine on the same axis as both wheel axles. I was expecting there to be some kind of spring action on this rod, as it's what ultimately gets pressed when you pull on the clutch, but there was nothing... I pulled on it and it slid out... I cleaned it off and pushed it back in. I tapped it a few times lightly with a rubber mallet but it seems like this rod is up against a brick wall or something. Shouldn't there be some kind of spring action return when that clutch release arm is pulled? Does anyone have any idea what's going on in there?
 
The only "return" action should be provided by the clutch diaphragm spring.
 
DogT said:
The riders handbook explains exactly and precisely how to set up the clutch action. If you don't have one, I think there's one available on line.
Click to expand...

And of course there are links to pdf manuals, parts books and various Riders handbooks in the "Technical Information and How to Post Photos" Sticky topic. :wink:

technical-information-how-post-photos-t2357.html
 
If ball pivot lever thingy drops the ball out of the lever crook it looses some cable pull length. If ball still in place then no cable tension exists till cable slack adjusted and then still too slack until the clutch center screw that bares against the actuation rod is adjusted. Watch lever move with adjuster screw. Stuff grease around rod to stifle oil trickies along it into friction plates and maybe fit DynoDaves clutch end seal to boot. I screw in rod adjustor till feeling it touch rod then back off 1/4 turn or so, so allows most lever motion to open up plates well yet on release allows full spring pressure to clamp plates. Plates are stamped out so have a sharper and duller edge, duller edge faces inward to aid spring to slide plates together as lever can easy over come the sharper side to open em up. With AFT in both primary and gearbox I've got over a year and nearly 10,000 miles now w/o first hint of clutch issues. So nice and stable makes me pensive I've been able to ignore it so long. If ya over fill just clean off the rear mess till it seeks its natural level on its own, usually just barely touching slack chain bottom. Its possible to have wrong length cable but not likely.
 
If you pulled out the clutch rod make sure you put it back the right way. Dimple towards the ball, flat side towards the clutch.
 
I'm still trying to determine if you take off the clutch release housing and push on that rod, should you feel spring action ?
 
If you're real strong you might, you're pushing against a pressure plate. Take your primary outer cover off and look at it. Better yet, just adjust the clutch mechanism correctly and watch the nut/stud on the drive side under the inspection cap push out and in. If it's not moving, you've got an issue and you'll be pulling off the primary cover anyhow. If it hasn't been off, it's time.

Dave
69S
 
DogT said:
If you're real strong you might, you're pushing against a pressure plate. Take your primary outer cover off and look at it. Better yet, just adjust the clutch mechanism correctly and watch the nut/stud on the drive side under the inspection cap push out and in. If it's not moving, you've got an issue and you'll be pulling off the primary cover anyhow. If it hasn't been off, it's time.

Dave
69S
Click to expand...

I pulled the primary cover off this morning. Nothing looks amiss in there except some chew marks on the alt rotor. Not sure what that's from... most likely a ham handed PO? I also noticed an unidentified tiny 1/4 inch screw laying on the floor in the vicinity of where the primary cover had been laying. I wonder if that had been bouncing around in there. Does anyone recognize this screw?

Clutch problem


Clutch problem


Clutch problem


The specks in pic 2 look like metal chips but they're reflections. The oil remnants at the bottom of the case is clean and free of any metal shavings.

The problem I'm having with all this is that clutch activation arm seems like it's locked in place. I've pushed on it with more pressure than I think the cable could create and it seems to have no give at all. I guess I'll just put it all together and see what happens when I pull on the clutch.
 
Robb2013 said:
I pulled the primary cover off this morning. Nothing looks amiss in there except some chew marks on the alt rotor. Not sure what that's from... most likely a ham handed PO? I also noticed an unidentified tiny 1/4 inch screw laying on the floor in the vicinity of where the primary cover had been laying. I wonder if that had been bouncing around in there. Does anyone recognize this screw?
Click to expand...

I looks like #32 here. http://www.oldbritts.com/1972_g5.html Maybe to PO just threw in there not knowing where it went hoping you would take care of it.
The diaphram circlip does not look seated well. Do you have the Norton number 1 tool, clutch diaphram compressor? This will be needed soon or later.

At the center of the clutch, loosen the nut around the big screw in the center. This is where you adjust the clutch. See if the center adjusting screw turns in. If tight, turn it out till loose. Turn it in again. I should come to a stop at the clutch rod end. When or if it does, turn it out 1/4 and see if you get a response from the lever.
 
Robb,
Are you sure you dont have the clutch operating lever in the correct position after you installed the new cable?It shows
in the manual both the right and wrong position.Just a thought .
Mike
 
That screw does look suspiciously like #32. You may be able to see if that screw is in with a mirror, but from directly behind the sprocket, it will be real hard to see without taking off the inner cover. Are we having fun yet?

Yes, like pv says, loosen that diaphragm nut and see what happens when you tighten or loosen the center stud. I like to straddle the bike, screw that stud in/out and feel the clutch release arm # 33 here http://www.oldbritts.com/1971_g7.html you will be able to tell when there is just the slightest amount of play in the rod doing that. Make sure the release arm has not fallen down or things will not work. The arm can fall and not engage the ball that pushes the rod, you need to hold that arm up while playing with the stud on the drive side. It might surprise you how much pressure it takes to push that rod in and release the clutch. There's leverage at the clutch lever and again at the arm. And make sure that diaphragm clip is all the way engaged in the slot, or you'll be like dirtimartini.

Now you've got it apart, it's easy to put the cable and lever back together and see what the diaphragm does, you should see it move in and out with the clutch lever.

Dave
69S
 
DogT said:
That screw does look suspiciously like #32. You may be able to see if that screw is in with a mirror, but from directly behind the sprocket, it will be real hard to see without taking off the inner cover. Are we having fun yet?

Yes, like pv says, loosen that diaphragm nut and see what happens when you tighten or loosen the center stud. I like to straddle the bike, screw that stud in/out and feel the clutch release arm # 33 here http://www.oldbritts.com/1971_g7.html you will be able to tell when there is just the slightest amount of play in the rod doing that. Make sure the release arm has not fallen down or things will not work. The arm can fall and not engage the ball that pushes the rod, you need to hold that arm up while playing with the stud on the drive side. It might surprise you how much pressure it takes to push that rod in and release the clutch. There's leverage at the clutch lever and again at the arm. And make sure that diaphragm clip is all the way engaged in the slot, or you'll be like dirtimartini.

Now you've got it apart, it's easy to put the cable and lever back together and see what the diaphragm does, you should see it move in and out with the clutch lever.

Dave
69S
Click to expand...

Something doesn't seem right. I loosened the nut then straddled the bike and turned the inner screw. If I lifted up on the clutch arm mechanism I could feel it follow the pin in and out. If I took my hand off of it, it didn't move. Here's a pic of the arm in place:

Clutch problem


Does this look right? I can't imagine how it could fit in there any other way. Also, I tried looking behind the clutch with a mirror but no go on that. I guess for peace of mind, at this point I need to determine for certain that it isn't screw 32. How is it again that you sustain serious injury when removing the clutch? Do I need the special tool? Yes, we're having fun now. Yeeeee haw
 
Robb,
Do you have the factory manual? The drawings in the primary/transmission Fig.C46 and C47 show this.Make sure you secure the ny-loc nut that is loose in your picture.
Mike
 
YING said:
Robb,
Do you have the factory manual? The drawings in the primary/transmission Fig.C46 and C47 show this.Make sure you secure the ny-loc nut that is loose in your picture.
Mike
Click to expand...


Yes, I was aware of that... just had it in position to hold it together while I screwed the inner bolt back and forth. I guess everything is probably intact in there since DogT mentioned that you have to hold up on the armature while screwing the bolt. I'm wondering how to tell if screw 32 is intact without going out and buying the clutch removal tool. I guess I could make one, but this is turning into the story about the woman who swallowed the fly.
 
Robb2013 said:
Clutch problem


Does this look right? I can't imagine how it could fit in there any other way. Also, I tried looking behind the clutch with a mirror but no go on that. I guess for peace of mind, at this point I need to determine for certain that it isn't screw 32. How is it again that you sustain serious injury when removing the clutch? Do I need the special tool? Yes, we're having fun now. Yeeeee haw
Click to expand...

The arm looks set proper but there is the issue of lining it up with the hole in the out cover where the cable come through. This is very important. I set the cover on before closing up and make a witness on the outer casing so when snugging up the clutch arm locking ring you can line it up with that mark.
 
It's really hard to tell if the arm is in the correct position by looking at it. You will be able to tell when you have the cable on it and it either works or no or works very hard. You can usually tell by holding a bit of upward pressure on the arm and screwing the stud in the clutch in and out, it should work smoothly.

That screw will not be visible by taking the clutch basket and primary chain off, you will need to pull the primary inner to see the drive sprocket, that's why I said you may be able to stick a mirror behind the sprocket on the chain and see the little screw, IF the sprocket is lined up so you can see the screw from the rear. It will look like this, but you can't see the screw in my pic. It will be on the outside of the sprocket (left side in pic).

Clutch problem



I took that by sticking a coolpix on the chain upside down.

Here you can see the screw in the front side of the sprocket.

Clutch problem



Yes you need a clutch tool, make one out of a bolt, 2 nuts and a 3 or 4" heavy pvc cap. I forget the bolt size, but I think a UNF works. You're bonding with your Norton.

Dave
69S
 
Dave,
Good pictures!! That should help him alot.
Mike
 
YING said:
Dave,
Good pictures!! That should help him alot.
Mike
Click to expand...


Yes it does, thanks Dave. I just put the outer cover on and installed the clutch cable to see if it works. I pulled and nothing happened. After reading your post I guess I need to go out and turn the screw on the inner bolt to see what that does. I'll also take a flash light and go looking for screw 32 now that I know where it's supposed to be. I wish it wasn't so fricking hot out.
 
That may happen to be the screw in the first picture, but the head would be on the left and the threaded end would be on the right. But I'm not sure what that is in my picture. I took it to see the clearance between the swing arm spindle end and the inner primary, which can be real tight. You can see that in the pic at the upper part. The clearance looks to be about 3/16" or so.

Dave
69S
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top