Changing front sprocket, what other work should I do?
- Thread starter kwoody51
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Question about pulling the left crankcase seal, do I just pick it out and then press in the new one? I've pulled smaller seals, just want to confirm this is the same practice and there are no "tricks" 
Also I looked and there wasn't a washer between the inner and outer case bolt..... I guessing there should have been?!
Also I looked and there wasn't a washer between the inner and outer case bolt..... I guessing there should have been?!
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The left side oil seal can be removed several ways---seal remover tool or small tip screwdriver---can drill a small hole and screw in a small screw to which you can use a vice grips to pull out---use what ever you feel comfortable with-----main point is not to damage the case or the crank when doing so.
Also---clean the seal recess real well----contact cleaner works well------also wipe off the outer diameter of the seal---smear a little grease on the rubber lip so it goes on lubed and not dry. "--I--" like to use a smear of 3-Bond sealer on the OD of the seal when installing it--keeps it tight....use a suitable socket--PVC pipe to drive the seal into place---only put force on the OD face of the seal not the center--so you won't distort the seal. That's about it.
The washer issue----usually there is a washer or two on the center mounting stud behind the inner case to keep it from bowing. I have found some bikes where this was omitted by some PO's and some where there were 3 & 4 washers installed---also some had hex nuts and other bits---you never can tell what some people will use instead of the correct parts. What you have to remember is that the inner cover must not be bowed --usually some kind of shimming is required to get this correct. Take your time to get it right and usually it will never have to be altered again unless you replace the inner cover---replace the center stud---or remove the cradle.
As the service manual goes---sometimes you have to read between the lines a bit to fully understand the procedures as they are written. I think they were written for people who have had some experience at working on engines and therefor had some common sense stored up so as to perform the task at hand without going into great detail.
This forum and the vast experience of some of the people here were not available 40 --50 years ago. Trial and error was the norm. Perhaps to some degree, it still is.
Also---clean the seal recess real well----contact cleaner works well------also wipe off the outer diameter of the seal---smear a little grease on the rubber lip so it goes on lubed and not dry. "--I--" like to use a smear of 3-Bond sealer on the OD of the seal when installing it--keeps it tight....use a suitable socket--PVC pipe to drive the seal into place---only put force on the OD face of the seal not the center--so you won't distort the seal. That's about it.
The washer issue----usually there is a washer or two on the center mounting stud behind the inner case to keep it from bowing. I have found some bikes where this was omitted by some PO's and some where there were 3 & 4 washers installed---also some had hex nuts and other bits---you never can tell what some people will use instead of the correct parts. What you have to remember is that the inner cover must not be bowed --usually some kind of shimming is required to get this correct. Take your time to get it right and usually it will never have to be altered again unless you replace the inner cover---replace the center stud---or remove the cradle.
As the service manual goes---sometimes you have to read between the lines a bit to fully understand the procedures as they are written. I think they were written for people who have had some experience at working on engines and therefor had some common sense stored up so as to perform the task at hand without going into great detail.
This forum and the vast experience of some of the people here were not available 40 --50 years ago. Trial and error was the norm. Perhaps to some degree, it still is.
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Thanks 303, you described what I planned to do for the removal and install of the seal.
As for the shims, this may sound stupidly simple but where would I get some to replace the missing ones. Clearly I'll need a variety so I can achieve the proper seal.
I'm not a mechanical misfit, if you will, it just that I'm used to working on bikes that are "younger" than myself
As for the shims, this may sound stupidly simple but where would I get some to replace the missing ones. Clearly I'll need a variety so I can achieve the proper seal.
I'm not a mechanical misfit, if you will, it just that I'm used to working on bikes that are "younger" than myself
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I was the same way 30 some yrs ago when I picked up first couple Nortons---had a new learning curve to process from having worked on BMW's, Triumph's and the various bikes out of Japan. Very easy to work on once you get into them awhile---so many things to improve upon as you will see.
As far as the shims go---I use a large flat grade 8 washer that fits the recess in the backside of the inner cover--about 1 in. or diameter---use a flat plate and sone 220 grit paper and WD40 as a lubricant and you can get it almost a perfect fit---takes a little trial and error fitting.
The shims used were nothing special--- usually lost when repairs were made and if not known to be there for a reason were left out and put back together without them.
Cases were bowed in and then the leaks began----cursed by owners who blamed bike for being made poorly.
On one of my bikes I fabricated a new stud with longer threaded shank and use a nylok and large washer ---install the inner cover-gasket-and sealer--torque to spec and then just adjust the spacing behind the case to take up the slack so it wont bow when securing the outer cover nut. Is this the desired method-????? It works for me.
As far as the shims go---I use a large flat grade 8 washer that fits the recess in the backside of the inner cover--about 1 in. or diameter---use a flat plate and sone 220 grit paper and WD40 as a lubricant and you can get it almost a perfect fit---takes a little trial and error fitting.
The shims used were nothing special--- usually lost when repairs were made and if not known to be there for a reason were left out and put back together without them.
Cases were bowed in and then the leaks began----cursed by owners who blamed bike for being made poorly.
On one of my bikes I fabricated a new stud with longer threaded shank and use a nylok and large washer ---install the inner cover-gasket-and sealer--torque to spec and then just adjust the spacing behind the case to take up the slack so it wont bow when securing the outer cover nut. Is this the desired method-????? It works for me.
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the shim is available from most norton parts supplier's. # 11 on this list.
http://www.oldbritts.com/nor_comm_73_10.html
http://www.oldbritts.com/nor_comm_73_10.html
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the strange thing is they seem to be coming in vogue over your way. guess you lot are slow to see a fad :lol:
SteveA said:You are most likely right, though the seat and bars are also different, but remember we Brits did the sensible thing with most of the Hi-Riders....we exported them to a place they were appreciated more
rvich
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SteveA said:bill said:
You are most likely right, though the seat and bars are also different, but remember we Brits did the sensible thing with most of the Hi-Riders....we exported them to a place they were appreciated more
The highrider...the Steinlager of Commandos.
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Looking at the diagram it appears the shim is not between the inner and outer cover but between the stud on the engine and the inner cover. I'm visualizing how the inner cover could be bowed in or out based on its length and mounting points.bill said:
So is there sometimes a shim needed between the inner and outer cover as well?
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you can use the same shim at both locations. the inner side between inner and stud to stop from pulling the whole primary case out of line. not all need shimming on the inside but you can try it this way, (between the 2 halves ) shim it till you have approx .010 gap without the O ring at the parting line. this way all the pressure is not trying to bow the outer case inward.
kwoody51 said:
SteveA
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bill said:the strange thing is they seem to be coming in vogue over your way. guess you lot are slow to see a fad :lol:
SteveA said:Oh! I don't know Bill...Easy Rider was made in 69 so it didn't get into British cinemas until some time in '70.....I was 16 or so and took a job pumping gas to get my first powered (two) wheels....The local cafe racer boys used to come in to the gas station to fill up....
Nortons, Dommis and such really, Tritons and Triumphs....all clip ons, rear sets...stock tanks and seats mainly.....studded jackets, new fangled jet helmets...
Then one by one they showed with ape bars, even still had the bare clip ons still on the fork legs, turned out to substitute for extra lamp mounts, but without the lamps...and still with the rear sets....probably because they no longer had the standard kit. Must have made for a interesting riding position....I guess they were in such a hurry to follow the fad they had to fit the bars straight away rather than do the whole thing.....
And from '70 then it only took about 2 1/2 years for Norton to come up with the Hi-Rider....another 6 months to get in show rooms....pretty rapid by new model standards
But that bit about the Hi-rider on Andover Norton's site is interesting....only about 50 sold...and apparently some of those were modded to sell as Roadsters, so maybe it was the Norton importers that fitted that tank, seat and smaller bars?....but by the comment on the headlamp, don't ride it at night :shock:
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The mounting stud is bolted to the engine cradle. Due to manufacturing tolerences the inner cover is shimmed to take up any gaps when attached to the engine cradle. If not for the stud it would be "free-floating' on the right and nothing to support the weight. The shimming---if indeed needed---goes here---on the back side---facing toward the engine cradle--the shim/shims are placed on the shank of the stud---then the inner cover is installled. When the mounting bolts are torqued to spec--the inner case "should" be nice and snug ---not tight---not loose. This is where I go to the right side of the bike--use a long flat bladed screwdriver and try to spin the washers---this tells me --"by feel" if the shimming is correct or not.
As far as placing a shim on the stud "inside" the case to shim the outer cover to .010"---? This is the mystique of the whole Norton community. Everyone, including myself, has their own particular methods and procedures they follow while performing these routine services and repairs---and-----they are all correct as long as the end result works.
Sometimes while working on the Nortons i recall the movie "Flight of the Phoenix". Out of the ruins of a crashed airplane--a German Toy maker manages to assemble parts to create a flying machine to fly the survivors to safety. IN NO way would the FFA ever allow this thing to get off the ground let alone declare it airworthy---but it worked for them.
As far as placing a shim on the stud "inside" the case to shim the outer cover to .010"---? This is the mystique of the whole Norton community. Everyone, including myself, has their own particular methods and procedures they follow while performing these routine services and repairs---and-----they are all correct as long as the end result works.
Sometimes while working on the Nortons i recall the movie "Flight of the Phoenix". Out of the ruins of a crashed airplane--a German Toy maker manages to assemble parts to create a flying machine to fly the survivors to safety. IN NO way would the FFA ever allow this thing to get off the ground let alone declare it airworthy---but it worked for them.
DogT
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I never put a shim between the inner and outer cover. Just torque the outer cover bolt to 25 ft/lb like it says in the manual. Plus I do add a bit of silicon in the groove at the bottom before the o-ring to keep the oil in it's place. Works for me.
Dave
69S
Dave
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The front sprocket in the primary cover is giving me some fits, is there a trick to get it off..... other than beating it silly?! I've got a proper sprocket puller and I applied some heat to it. I've already indented the little hat that goes on the end of the puller so I'm a little weary to twist it too much more, but can if that's what it takes.
Thanks for the help!!!
Thanks for the help!!!
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If you have the sprocket puller installed and have it tensioned pretty snug---what I have done is take a brass or solid aluminum drift and a medium ball peen and give the sprocket a good rap on one side---this sometimes will jolt it just enough to break the taper fit and the sprocket will pop right off.---Don't tap both sides---just one side you don't want to force it on any tighter. When refitting----be sure the tapers are clean---and dry. Also i use a new toothed washer when refitting ---and torque to specs.
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Unless you have an Oxy/Acyl tanks to heat it quickley---using just plumbers propane heat will only heat up both the sprocket and the crank at the same rate--usually no heat is needed---just the puller and a sharp rap on the sprocket will pop it off.----Unless---someome used locktite or epoxy to install it with----then--you may have a problem getting it off---just don't damage the crank.
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