Chandler wobble

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john robert bould

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If the spinning mass is not central to the axis of the frame or the engine is pulled by the transmission out of the true centre line that will cause the engine mass to wobble from that axis, causing chandiers wobble ..this motion is a side to side action , Norton knew about this and refraimed from connecting any thing solid to the frame...I can only guess thats why the ios's have the side clearance at 10 thou..after all why would the vibes increase when the clearance is reduced? [i dont mean totaly removed] does this suggest the engine rocks side-to side? More tea :lol:
 
Re: Chandier wobble

You obviously have done the research so WTF is "chandiers wobble".. Save us the search and post up the fact... Or am i the only person in the world who has never heard of it...
 
Re: Chandier wobble

olChris said:
You obviously have done the research so WTF is "chandiers wobble".. Save us the search and post up the fact... Or am i the only person in the world who has never heard of it...
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me neither. Maybe its a northern hemisphere thing.
Dereck.
 
Re: Chandier wobble

The www says:

" Named after American astronomer Seth Carlo Chandler, who discovered it in the late 19th century, the Chandler wobble is a wobbling motion that occurs as the Earth spins. Scientists say it is resulting in a slow change in the Earth's axis. Much as a toy top wobbles when it slows down, the alignment of Earth's geographic poles varies as it spins. "

No mention of Commandos :)
 
Re: Chandier wobble

'If the spinning mass is not central to the axis of the frame or the engine is pulled by the transmission out of the true centre line that will cause the engine mass to wobble from that axis, causing chandiers wobble ..this motion is a side to side action , Norton knew about this and refraimed from connecting any thing solid to the frame...'

If the transmission pulling the engine sideways in the frame causes a wobble, wouldn't it be smarter to prevent the sideways motion of the engine/gearbox assembly, and cause the vibrations to only be in the other two directions - fore and aft, and up and down, i.e. a rotation of the whole assembly around the pivot ?
 
Re: Chandier wobble

Yes ,But the attempt to restrain the wobble causes forces to act upon the restraint being made..hence some owners find increased vibration when using solid mounts to the head..basicly the wobble transmitts energy into the frame...coming from the north we Vikings know these things :lol: Spinning magnetic iron fish still hang from our long boats :lol:


If you want to see chandiers wobble ..add a very small weight to the side of a gyro..it now wobbles you have altered the centre of gravity..
so when your Norton crank is spinning at 6000 rpm the whole thing wants to rock side to side..as well as up and down . the engine continualy shakes in differant planes due to each cylinder's loading and un-loading . Plus other im-balance's from the drive..etc
If i am wrong ..i will be interested to know why?
peace be with you all.
 
Re: Chandier wobble

john robert bould said:
Yes ,But the attempt to restrain the wobble causes forces to act upon the restraint being made..hence some owners find increased vibration when using solid mounts to the head..basicly the wobble transmitts energy into the frame...coming from the north we Vikings know these things :lol: Spinning magnetic iron fish still hang from our long boats :lol:
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Never took you for being an Odenist john, do you do the wobble dance round your bike before you set off for a bit of recreational pillaging with your mate Seth?
 
Re: Chandier wobble

Cause i do! otherwise no one would know where the shops are..any one for royal jelly :?: To bee or not to bee :lol:
 
Re: Chandier wobble

johnm said:
The www says:

" Named after American astronomer Seth Carlo Chandler, who discovered it in the late 19th century, the Chandler wobble is a wobbling motion that occurs as the Earth spins. Scientists say it is resulting in a slow change in the Earth's axis. Much as a toy top wobbles when it slows down, the alignment of Earth's geographic poles varies as it spins. "

No mention of Commandos :)
Click to expand...

So if we could mount the earth on isolastic mounts, the wobble of the poles would not be as noticeable, and we would no longer be bothered by pesky earthquakes and such?
 
Re: Chandier wobble

It always amazes me that anyone is surprised that a 50 year old 850cc vertical twin with a 360 degree crank induces vibration to the rider.
Jaydee
 
Re: Chandier wobble

Frame twists and cushions compress so no constant parallel surfaces to point metal metal contact or rubber compression threshold reached and the sensation of blacksmiths gets through. There is a solution but who'd believe it so carry on ta ta.
 
Re: Chandier wobble

850's 50 years ago?
Vibes where excepted 50 years ago ..except for one man Phil Vincent..the idea of a vertical twin never entered his head...Turners 500 cc speed twin vibed less than our 850s ..and riders back then had thicker skin..on their ass !

jaydee75 said:
It always amazes me that anyone is surprised that a 50 year old 850cc vertical twin with a 360 degree crank induces vibration to the rider.
Jaydee
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Hehe no amount of engineering brilliance will remove the annoying valve train buzz in stiffly mounted engines even if every other oscillation is removed or nullified, only the isolactic Commando can do that, so far, at least some of them. I've tasted Hoppers rubber mounted Harley's design, which definitely works very well but not as well as a Commando can. Only reason to mount solid is for handling reasons so always a compromise comfort vs control, except for one I know of so far. If THE Hinge or tire sounds are not on your mind pitching into tights then carry on with the ordinary level of satisfaction but spoiled princesses like me are harder to please. Still even Peel would transmit horizonal side/side imbalances hum form say hitting hwy w/o putting both plug leads back on, though more a lack of hwy thrust than vibes alerting me to fit it on the fly. Factory Trixie with some bench grinding is smooth enough I don't want 1000 mile days to end the flight trance. I can sort of feel her but only nice soft pets w/o any high frequency annoyance.
 
I think what 'chandler's wobble' refers to is the precession which occurs when your turn a gyro. If you ride a bike with a heavy crank fast and turn into a corner, sometimes you can feel the crankshaft affecting the handling. If you feed a vibration which turns the crank only part of one degree with a bit of force, he precession will appear somewhere else. It appears in a direction at 90 degrees to the applied force. I never remember how to add up the vectors, I only remember that if you spin a bicycle wheel with the top going away from you, as you hold the ends of the axle - if you turn the axle to the left, the wheel will lay over to the right. In my own bike the motor is rigidly mounted and the crank has a 72% BF. It is extremely smooth at 7,000 RPM (dangerously so), however at idle the bike rocks backwards and forwards quite strongly. When you ride the bike it is always direct and positive and quick handling, and self steers positively to tighten its line in corners. I suspect that the heavy Norton crank actually helps the handling.
 
Now you've getting into rocket science beyond scope of Commando conjecture or application. Precession is the constant smooth cone the rotation axis traces out by a symmetrical round or circular objects. Chanderles wobble is a very small out of sych circular motion imbalance induced by non symmetric objects so Chandlers wobble only slightly adds and subtracts cyclically a slight wobble in the much greater magnitude of gyroscopic precession in a gravity acceleration reference field. Picture 300 mile hoop of string with 30 ft ripples in string. On planetary scale Chandlers only adds/subtracts about 30 ft radius wobble noise. In other words its extremely difficult to detect at planetary scales so may be be below modern man's ability to detect it on the scale of our crank shafts.

Neat motion principle which does apply significantly if laser targeting small space debris, like paint chips or insulation sections w/o much bulk mass, while they are spinning, while orbiting around a space craft which is spun for artificial gravity while orbiting around an asteroid thats orbiting around a moon that orbiting around a planet that orbiting more or less in a dual star system with a wobbling combined system CoG around a chaotic attractor, til ZAP PUFF.
 
hobot said:
Now you've getting into rocket science beyond scope of Commando conjecture or application. Precession is the constant smooth cone the rotation axis traces out by a symmetrical round or circular objects. Chanderles wobble is a very small out of sych circular motion imbalance induced by non symmetric objects so Chandlers wobble only slightly adds and subtracts cyclically a slight wobble in the much greater magnitude of gyroscopic precession in a gravity acceleration reference field. Picture 300 mile hoop of string with 30 ft ripples in string. On planetary scale Chandlers only adds/subtracts about 30 ft radius wobble noise. In other words its extremely difficult to detect at planetary scales so may be be below modern man's ability to detect it on the scale of our crank shafts.

Neat motion principle which does apply significantly if laser targeting small space debris, like paint chips or insulation sections w/o much bulk mass, while they are spinning, while orbiting around a space craft which is spun for artificial gravity while orbiting around an asteroid thats orbiting around a moon that orbiting around a planet that orbiting more or less in a dual star system with a wobbling combined system CoG around a chaotic attractor, til ZAP PUFF.
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Thats just what i was going to say... :lol: :lol: I now have a new mission in life to discovery whether both my Nortons wobble, shake or vibrate... ATM they do pretty much give all those signals one way or another.. They both will do 90mph and go round corners better than my agility..... Im happy ....
 
Ok there is one instrument of mankind now that can detect Chandler's wobble annoyance, when Ms Peel is on THE Dry Gravel light electrolytically charged asymmetric particles repelling each other and the rubber molecules so the Van der Waals electron force fields pumped up & expanded - lowering their frequency range into the harmonics of tire rotation Chandler's wobble noise which levitates stronger than Earth's gravity so once tire slippage just past the idea 10% level a drift turns into a slide that turns bike on CoG to collide with what ever man or nature put in the way. I believe Peel has solved the mystery of why landslides carry on way further than current known physics can account for, ie: when particle size allows Chandler's asymmetric wobble to dominate over gravity and spin of prior inter locking particles set free. Very similar to having too strong of suspension springs w/o any dampening, bouncing till out of control unless rear thrust ballistic booster rocket aimed to counter it ahead of time of need so actual cornering direction or travel change don't happen til already straightened up to fly right but still waiting for it to occur in time.

Chandler wobble
 
Even so...as the earth as out of balance iron core, and weights trillions of tons..even the Earth as to obay to forces,wobble. The Moon and tides add allso.


hobot said:
Now you've getting into rocket science beyond scope of Commando conjecture or application. Precession is the constant smooth cone the rotation axis traces out by a symmetrical round or circular objects. Chanderles wobble is a very small out of sych circular motion imbalance induced by non symmetric objects so Chandlers wobble only slightly adds and subtracts cyclically a slight wobble in the much greater magnitude of gyroscopic precession in a gravity acceleration reference field. Picture 300 mile hoop of string with 30 ft ripples in string. On planetary scale Chandlers only adds/subtracts about 30 ft radius wobble noise. In other words its extremely difficult to detect at planetary scales so may be be below modern man's ability to detect it on the scale of our crank shafts.

Neat motion principle which does apply significantly if laser targeting small space debris, like paint chips or insulation sections w/o much bulk mass, while they are spinning, while orbiting around a space craft which is spun for artificial gravity while orbiting around an asteroid thats orbiting around a moon that orbiting around a planet that orbiting more or less in a dual star system with a wobbling combined system CoG around a chaotic attractor, til ZAP PUFF.
Click to expand...
 
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