Carb-intake manifold-intake port matching

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Sorry only a few of ya here like Alan acetel know/tested on funny fhysics like hobot which is why the louder ones do not understand my accuracy (typos excepted). For instance if ya going by our practical use zero pegged pressure gauge conventions, ya might make ignorant assumptions like mixture being pulled into chambers instead of actually pushed by pressure. Under certain conditions, a closed system can be described by a negative Kelvin temperature, and yet be hotter than the same system at any positive temperature. Rational scientific trained people encountering unknowns do not immediately reject reports but ask what deeper understanding an unexpected exception to the rules might reveal or try to test it themselves. I do not know all the flow factors of intakes just that it can be worth shooting for what I and BSA got to enjoy out the blue for someone to try it and measure what its worth. So who will be the first to experiment with electrostatic intake air accelerator pump?
 
hobot said:
make ignorant assumptions like mixture being pulled into chambers instead of actually pushed by pressure.
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Thats a chicken-and-egg question Steve, so which chooks are ignorant in this. ?
Bit like the big discussion of gravity at the moment is debating if gravity is a push or a pull.

If the piston didn't retreat in its cylinder, and attempt to pull a vacuum, the atmosphere couldn't do much pushing.

If the throttling device (butterfly, slide) is closed, the cylinder DOES pull a vacuum in the manifold.
So in that case, the vacuum certainly does come first....
 
Everyone knows that hobot posts in his sleep.
How else would you get to 17000 + posts....
 
Rohan said:
hobot said:
make ignorant assumptions like mixture being pulled into chambers instead of actually pushed by pressure.
Click to expand...

Thats a chicken-and-egg question Steve, so which chooks are ignorant in this. ?
Bit like the big discussion of gravity at the moment is debating if gravity is a push or a pull.

If the piston didn't retreat in its cylinder, and attempt to pull a vacuum, the atmosphere couldn't do much pushing.

If the throttling device (butterfly, slide) is closed, the cylinder DOES pull a vacuum in the manifold.
So in that case, the vacuum certainly does come first....
Click to expand...

When I was at school, the science teacher put a peeled hard boiled egg on the neck of a wide neck bottle that had had a match burn out in it, so was full of hot gas.

Obviously, as the gas cooled, the egg was force through the neck and into the bottle...

He then asked "was this pulled in by the contracting gases in the bottle... or pushed in by atmospheric pressure"...!
 
We did the little oil drum with water boiling in it.
Then you turn off the heat, and put the lid on.
It crushes down like nobodies business.

But if there was no (near) vacuum created in there, the atmosphere would have no traction to push on anything.
Its still the ole chicken-and-egg syndrome...
 
Lets see Rohan constantly poopoos this mis match because no one can give objective measures with the full theory of streamlining of pressure wave induced flows - even after BSA, other push rod engine references and hobot exclaiming what others might to that made Peels power punch. Only evidence Rohan counterpoints with is if hobot write anything better ignore it, so who ya gonna believe? Ta ta.
 
hobot said:
Lets see Rohan constantly poopoos this mis match because no one can give objective measures with the full theory of streamlining of pressure wave induced flows - even after BSA, other push rod engine references and hobot exclaiming what others might to that made Peels power punch. Only evidence Rohan counterpoints with is if hobot write anything better ignore it, so who ya gonna believe? Ta ta.
Click to expand...

Poo Poo? Ta ta? Koo Koo, ka ka do do mama dada? I think I have broken the code. Revelations could be just around the corner. Stand by! Maybe pete.v solve all issues now.
 
Rohan said:
We did the little oil drum with water boiling in it.
Then you turn off the heat, and put the lid on.
It crushes down like nobodies business.

But if there was no (near) vacuum created in there, the atmosphere would have no traction to push on anything.
Its still the ole chicken-and-egg syndrome...
Click to expand...

Would it be cruel of me to ask what is your highest physics qualification?
 
Let's agree to call Hobot the egg and Rohan the chicken then!











(Or is it the opposite??? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: )
 
Triton Thrasher said:
Would it be cruel of me to ask what is your highest physics qualification?
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Physics 101, core subject for most science based uni courses.
And yours ?

If hobot can't put into words what he is trying to get across, where does that leave us.
Atmo pressure applies up the throat of the carb, but beyond that its flowing into a near vacuum at times.
Boundary layers and laminar flow may or may not apply at such times.

And since NO-ONE here seems to have the slightest inkling of the speeds of gas flow in these systems,
this discussion is little more than gas bagging...
 
hobot said:
Lets see Rohan constantly poopoos this mis match because no one can give objective measures with the full theory of streamlining of pressure wave induced flows - even after BSA, other push rod engine references and hobot exclaiming what others might to that made Peels power punch. Only evidence Rohan counterpoints with is if hobot write anything better ignore it, so who ya gonna believe? Ta ta.
Click to expand...

NO WHERE DID I SAY THAT THE CARB MISMATCH THING WON'T WORK
SO PLEASE DON'T VERBAL ME / MISQUOTE ME LIKE YOUR 'DISCUSSIONS' SEEM TO DO WITH FOLKS.

Seat of the pants evaluation is all very well, but in other posts you claim that you can outrun Kawasakis blindfolded and with one hand tied behind your back.
So we have learned to take such claims with a LARGE pinch a salt, a little seasoning, and turn the heat up on the shishkabab please....

I started my riding career with a large monobloc (Amal carb) on an earlier dommie,
and while it wasn't the best running combination in creation, it did the job.
I have no way of knowing if it was faster or slower or same as the stock carb.
Evaluations of modern hd riders show that they perceive louder as faster when removing the stock mufflers,
even though the stopwatch shows that many such simple changes are slower.
Seat-of-the-pants can be misleading....

Science is all about measuring stuff.
 
Rohan said:
The vacuum comes 1st, so that must be it....
Click to expand...
A physicist will tell you that a vacuum IS nothing and can DO nothing, let alone exert a force or pressure.

You're not likely to find a vacuum in real life, but you can find a low absolute pressure.
Atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 psi absolute.
You can never have a negative absolute pressure, but it can be close to zero.
 
Ah, suddenly someone is talking absolute pressures.

The vacuum gauge on the dash on most cars will commonly report 750+ mm of vacuum, in normal driving.
Descending hills, or decelerating from speed will pull this much vacuum.
Thats getting not that far from a complete vacuum.

Not that anyone here has ever mentioned achieving a complete and utter vacuum anyway...
 
X-file said:
A physicist will tell you that a vacuum IS nothing and can DO nothing, let alone exert a force or pressure.
Click to expand...

Try telling that to spacemen on spacewalks, if they take off their pressure suit.
Or puncture their capsule....

And as noted previously, plenty of old vehicles and trucks had vacuum operated wind screen wipers, and brakes.
Obviously they work in concert with atmospheric pressure, but when the vacuum goes away, they sure don't do much.

Running out of vacuum with vacuum operated brakes is not a good feeling, no matter how much atmosphere you have around you !
And of course they draw that vacuum from the manifold, plenty to spare and share....
 
Are you feeling anger ?
We have noticed that before, at the merest wry comment even....

Whats wrong with a good old discussion, with a bit of education thrown in.
From the range of offerings here, plainly some here don't fully understand how otto cycle engines function....
 
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