Can a Norton engine run without vibration?

Then there's the full opposite of smooth 360 vertical when Jim C. gets his twingle firing.

Only ? ONLY ! theres no such thing , as Only ! :lol: The Dynamics of the mechanical inertia at 270 are as those of a 90 V in the Bores ,
Theres a secondary rocking couple , as the rods arnt on the same axis . So if we put the counterweights so there not rotationaly aligned,
'We' can start getting them dynamically advantageous too . Probly only take another 50 years of so till somebody wakes up to it . :?

And , just to be awkward , Its more like one bank of a V 4 . :wink:

hobot said:

Then there's the full opposite of smooth 360 vertical when Jim C. gets his twingle firing.

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Trying to work your way back to that 19th century single cylinder steam engine?

Turners ' Twin Single ' Speedtwin bears thought .

Theres been twin pipe single cylinders , Twin Carb Throat single Cylinders , and even the Twin Piston D.K.W. single Cylinder

A central flywheel two bearing twin , is essentialy a Two Cylindered Single . :shock: :lol: :idea: . Alternate Fireing .

Looking at the Fireing Order , the Nortons ALTERNATE , Yamahas were STAGGERED .( BMs were alternate too . )
With the Big ' Flat plane ' Crank Laverda being essentially a four with a cylinder ' Gone ' the permutations are endless .

ISOLASTICS absorbing the irregularities , alows you to arrane the irregularities as you see fit .
Pressumably the loading and acceleration at the fireing stroke (or part of ) being the greatest FORCE ,
the others pale into secondary relevance , as far as utiliseing the optimum potential output of a specification .

Or Twisting It To Suit . :lol: 8) .

Trying to work your way back to that 19th century single cylinder steam engine?

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Uh yes I am on Ms Peel's deal though steam engines don't burn any of the water like Peel will. If Peel transmits much vibes I don't think I can pull off what I like doing on her. I'm sold down the river on your piston rod offering Jim, which essentially saved Peel engine when the ligthened Cosworth piston were found to raise CR way too much w/o hogging out the smallish chambers. Your pistons/rod were so much lighter than the special race Cosworth's, for which I had crank BF made to 77% going by the orbital measures, yours shot BF up into the upper 90's %. Now I've had more time to think and read I may have to try 110% balance factor with the tire reaction in mind rather than vibration sensed. Still tingle on my 9K P!!, Peel's 11K+ event and your Norton tach sitting just shy of 10K. How'd that feel to you?

As much as its desirable to have a balanced engine in mostly rigid mounting, if engine can take the shakes, whats it matter if its rubber mounted to protect frame and pilot?

You're right , John. The engine/transmission assembly vibrates like hell. Only in-line sixes and horizontally opposed engines are essentially free of reciprocating inertial vibration (and maybe V-12s). It's been a long time since technical college, and I can't remeber how the rocking couples work out in sixes ond boxers.

I feel sorry for anyone with a Commando that transfers vibration to the rider above about 1000 rpm (yes, it will shake your fillings out at idle). You're not getting the full benefit of the design's capabilites. Note that my ride-to-work (45 miles each way for a while) was a 650SS and I did some research into the problems of the P-11, so heavy vibrators weren't absent from my work experience. That P-11 was the scariest ride I had all the time I was at N-V.

The BSA B33 single 500 I had would shake your eyeballs out of your sockets at any speed. I drove it from Monterey to Santa Barbara and even Merced (Yosemite) and after 20 minutes in any direction my arms were asleep up to the elbows. When I got off, I had to grab hold of a telephone pole to stop shaking. You can do that when you're 19 or 20, not any more.

Dave
69S

Matt Spencer said:

Lets face it , All British bikes shook themselves to bits . And all the Japers couldnt go round a corner , even on the end
of a rope .

The Olde 60 Bonneville sorted it out though , just Jap parts feel off , footrests , tail lights and things . 8)

Pommy bikes have ' PRIMARY ' ( Good ) Vibration . hopefully .
Jap ones have ' Secondary ' Vibration .Yuk . Buzz , wobble , have incredably optimistic speedos and are undergeared for acceleration . How can you tell its a Yam. , not a Triumph . LISTEN , That sound , the Triumph'd be doing twice the speed .
The Norton , you probly wouldnt hear it, Till its past you . :wink:

:shock: :lol: :| :mrgreen:

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besides your hobot like descriptors - you have exceeded your limit on emioicons - repeatedly! :shock: 8) :lol: :x :cry: :evil: :twisted: :roll: :wink: :!: :mrgreen:

Mine comes from a slight miscalculation on a Pre Unit T120 . Hence advise , ' when youre sideways , Never shut the throttle ' .

like to see youre T110 .

I see youve missed adding that masterpiece of engineering refinement , The CB 750 , to youre collection .Not much point when
it couldnt blow of a good pre unit T110 though , or out steer it.Or even get into its dust cloud , on the gravel . :wink: :lol:

did some research into the problems of the P-11, so heavy vibrators weren't absent from my work experience. That P-11 was the scariest ride I had all the time I was at N-V.

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Ohmyohmy Frank It was a drag only P!! barely converted for street use that was my 1st cycle and introduction to Norton. It was damaging to hands all the way to teeth to ride at hi way speed and just got worse the faster it went. Only one I know that made a P11 practical to commute far on was Tom Davenpoet of Phantom Oiler fame, by mounting rubber Honda bars to it. That P!! is still by far the most exciting
power package I've ever throttled up. To bad it lacked isolastics and ground clearance to lean. It had special light frame alloy so likey worse than the smaller BI bikes that also shook bike and pilot to pulp. I rode a big Red Indian Chief back then too but only felt like a slow tractor vibes not the blenderizing kind.

Matt Spencer said:

Mine comes from a slight miscalculation on a Pre Unit T120 . Hence advise , ' when youre sideways , Never shut the throttle ' .

like to see youre T110 .

I see youve missed adding that masterpiece of engineering refinement , The CB 750 , to youre collection . :wink: :lol:

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i remember pushing a CB750 (my cousin's - i had hotwired it) for about 2 miles in my youth - (a big heavy brute that when it ran was personality-less) that was enough of an encounter to satisfy any need to acquire one

DogT said:

The BSA B33 single 500 I had would shake your eyeballs out of your sockets at any speed. I drove it from Monterey to Santa Barbara and even Merced (Yosemite) and after 20 minutes in any direction my arms were asleep up to the elbows. When I got off, I had to grab hold of a telephone pole to stop shaking. You can do that when you're 19 or 20, not any more.

Dave
69S

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Dave, At 19 who cared? It was transport...to the girl friends, and who was bothered how you got there ?:roll:

mikegray660 said:

i remember pushing a CB750 (my cousin's - i had hotwired it) for about 2 miles in my youth - (a big heavy brute that when it ran was personality-less) that was enough of an encounter to satisfy any need to acquire one

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Riding any Honda CB is kind of like riding a rock down the road. Riding the Norton makes riding feel right.
Dave
69S

john robert bould said:

Dave, At 19 who cared? It was transport...to the girl friends, and who was bothered how you got there ?:roll:

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That's what I meant, at 19 you're invincible. I wish I still were.

Dave
69S

Is there any bedding-in procedure for new isos? Should they be set a little on the loose or tight side to begin with? Or do you just go with the specified setting from the outset (as I've done). I imagine the plastic discs should wear a little pretty quick - all the high spots should quickly wear off resulting in a little slack?

There supposed to be the coppery phenolic anti friction thingos a bit like the sintered clutch plates .
.Pay to Mic. ( measure ) and see .
White nylon shimmy things are pre 72 .

Pressumably they compact / work harden , a little . Cant recall if I lubed with copper coat or white silicon grease ?
With Std. head steady mine'd give a nod or weave at 5 thou clearnce , so ran a measured 2 1/2 to 4 1/4 ( feeler guage ) .

At 10 thou it flt like you were rideing two motorcycles .

IF it hasnt been endo'ed or tossed down the road , etc , the frame mounts should be in alignment .
So shimmiming tight wont stuff things up unless the shims are tapered and you measure at the thin side . :cry:

2 thou it'd bind a bit , but free off after a few runs .

The whole frame alignment / Iso's Centred / Shims set in account of that is what keeps it all square and free ,
& S M O O T H .

The rubber Donuts themselves definately soften of from new ( the original ones ) though some rubber hardens with age .
I wouldnt put that past them too . Would have to , to split and F out . A call for Urethane / Nolathane Iso Rubbers ,
comes in several grades , denoted by colour .

Riding any Honda CB is kind of like riding a rock down the road. Riding the Norton makes riding feel right. Dave

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Amen to me its like sewing machine buzzy road appliance vs bumble bee sense of bike that should not be able to fly so smooth and sure.

One day it will be standard practice to do like hobot - take a grinder to new front doughtnuts and bevel them to remove at least half of their rim meat. Put extra left over large donuts in the rear the harder the better. That will get you ordinary smooth delight. Install a front link to remove another 15% of so of shimmyshakes you don't even know you are felling, then a top link to definitely notice another 10% or so isolation over the ordinary. That only leaves about 75% more to remove via a rump rod you'al lack to have a total disappearing act like ole Ms Peel. Unncanny Flabergastlingly Fabulous I tell you again and again and again.

Of course ordinary Cdo's are very sensitive to state of tires and air balance for the sense of vibration and iso feed back in leaned powered turning.

Steve,
Well so far the stock 69 setup is doing just fine for me. I'm finally getting used to pushing it around the curves and it seems plenty stable for me. The stock iso's are probably a bit tight, but this winter I'm thinking about getting the Hemmings adjusters so I can play with it next season. I let Sidriley ride it one day and he was impressed with the bicycle handling of it with the Commando torque. He even complemented the front TLS brake compared to his old Triumph, but I did work on it.

I should have compared the sponginess of the original donuts to the new ones while I had it apart, but I didn't. I'm thinking the new ones are a bit tight. So far I have not gotten into any strange handling, not that I ever did before, even though it was plenty worn.

Dave
69S

I've got factory Trixie Combat to keep me in relationship with the rest of Commando complaining world. I do know how good a regular ole Cdo can be dialed in and its more than plenty enough for me EXCEPT if you go all out racing with modern sports bikes a Commando can go really nutzo on you power accelerating though sweepers. As there is no way on Earth an ordinary Cdo or elite modern can deliver the G strikes of Ms Peel - I do not press a factory Cdo all the hard as speed.

I do not recommend adding more rubber area though some claim to get away with it, factory had to reduce area to get isolation down below 2000 and we hear complaints about hardened iso cushions, so put two and two together on why the rod links are a revolution but only 3 rear linked ones fielded so far. One is McRae swash plate type but still similar smooth advantage.

By far the best smoothing factor I've done so far on Trixie with beveled cushions in adjustable iso's was renew both tires at same time. She's so stable smooth on stuff she jossled to scar prior I have to tell myself to behave - that this is as good as it gets on a ordinary unlinked Cdo. Now I know why it was so scary to follow Wes in a huff he's got new chink tires on like Trixie does now. Bad tires did restore reflexes to recover upsets or back off in time.

If I lived on a paved road I'd of ridden a few hours today but its a risky rocky ride out and back that is wearing on me to stay upright so just didn't feel strong enough today. I put a lot of work to have a relief valve of a Commando so its a hit to my sense of boyhood to shy off on a grace day ride, even with wind screen. The sense of smooth flowing around with Torque still lingers from last ride.