BREXIT(?)

Rohan said:
After all the hoohaa, they all seem to be standing around and saying "whats next".
Doesn't seem to have been well thought out.
Or thought out at all, really..... ?

'Boldly stepping out into the unknown',
or boldly stepping off into the abyss ???

The sad truth seems to be that all politicians, in the UK and in EU, in remain and leave camps were basically convinced the vote would be to remain. So you're right I think, no one really put any detailed thought into any post Brexit action plans. Or if they did, they're keeping them well hidden!

Another very interesting twist is that Boris Johnson, arguably the most influential figurehead of the leave campaign, has chosen NOT to run for party leader (ergo Prime Minister). Can't help but wonder if that's because he's now thinking 'oops' ?!

I don't buy into the stepping off into the abyss thinking at all though, it seems to me that the world is bigger than Europe. And especially bigger than the small, single minded version of Europe that the MEPs all have when they get together behind closed doors!
 
It doesn't take a mighty intellect and stripping a populace, to do better for a country as well-rooted as the UK, than the communist mobsters "heading" the EU.

A few level heads and truly patriotic Brits will formulate a plan that works.

...and it can be done in less than two years.
 
Playing Devils Advocate, The masses must be enjoying seeing the two main political parties tearing themselves apart and the elite running scared as millions of 0's are knocked off their wealth.
Voting for Donald would give the rather past-best-by-date two horse US system a shake up.
Aussie just had their Election and the ever so slightly loopy Paula Hansen had grabbed 6% of the vote :D
We ditched the 'first past the post" system years ago and never had a jobs-for-the-boys upper house and it seems to work better with coalition arrangements.
I think the Governments around the world have realised that referendums are best kept to things like " which flag do you want"
 
72Combat said:
I think the Governments around the world have realised that referendums are best kept to things like " which flag do you want"
That would be asking for a bloodbath over here.
 
grandpaul said:
72Combat said:
I think the Governments around the world have realised that referendums are best kept to things like " which flag do you want"
That would be asking for a bloodbath over here.

I think we already had that bloodbath and although there may still be japanese soldiers hanging out of palm trees on deserted islands, the Confederacy lost and it's over.
 
72Combat said:
... never had a jobs-for-the-boys upper house...
We did have an unelected upper house until 1950 - membership was by appointment, initially appointments were for life and made by the Premier but later for a fixed term, and theoretically by the Governer General but effectively by the government of the day. Thankfully long gone.
 
72Combat said:
Aussie just had their Election and the ever so slightly loopy Paula Hansen had grabbed 6% of the vote :D
We ditched the 'first past the post" system years ago and never had a jobs-for-the-boys upper house and it seems to work better with coalition arrangements.

Oz doesn't have first-past-the-post voting, for the Senate (upperhouse) either.
Its a fully preferential system. And voting is compulsory.
The ballot paper was over a metre wide (!), and contained a choice of 132 candidates. !!
It will take weeks to figure out who got elected.

So Pauline Hanson got 6% of the upper house vote. Thats one or maybe 2 Senators ?
She and Donald Trump seem to have a lot in common, he could be preaching from her songbook...
Anarchy Rules, OK ??

Brexit seems to have a component of that too ?
 
ntst8 said:
72Combat said:
... never had a jobs-for-the-boys upper house...
We did have an unelected upper house until 1950 - membership was by appointment, initially appointments were for life and made by the Premier but later for a fixed term, and theoretically by the Governer General but effectively by the government of the day. Thankfully long gone.

As the Son of one of those nasty immigrant types I don't know a lot of that stuff. :oops:
Probably why my Dad was made to work in the Huntly mines for a year before he could move to where he wanted.
At his rate of Democratic Revolution against the Elite we could have Winston Peters as PM next :roll:

Re Aussie elections, surprised to see canvasing on Election Day outside the polling booths!
However the Sausage in a Roll idea has some merit, do they sell beer too?
 
72Combat said:
do they sell beer too?

haha
Not that I have ever seen.
That could throw a real wildcard into the election results.
The sausages/cakes/scones/potplants often benefit the local schools or churches used as polling booths.

The polling booth workers are handing out how-to-vote-cards.
With preferential voting and often ~100+ candidates for each states' Senate,
you almost need a how-to vote guide = preferences matter.
Any error in the numbering (missing/doubled etc) may make the vote invalid.

Brexits yes or no sounds way simpler...
 
xbacksideslider said:
The parallel is pure, Danno. Pelosi embargoed the text of Obamacare exactly as the text of these trade agreements was embargoed.

When it is really crooked, the power elites abhor transparency and will not give the public a chance to affect the outcome. As Peter R said, the other EU politicians will not follow Cameron's "mistake" in allowing referenda.

As Fast Eddie said "trade will find a way." Yes, but I would add - but at a cost. Interest groups buy protection from the politicians in the form of tariffs, or whatever barrier or Warren Buffett "moat" they pay for. Then, competitors, often called "smugglers" or some other pejorative, find a way. There is a cost but that cost is less than the spread, so smuggling remains profitable.

As an aside, the second President of the U.S., John Adams, before the Revolutionary War was a smuggler. He smuggled tea from Ceylon and the Danes to evade King George's tariff on tea. At the Boston Tea party, the "Indians" who threw the British Tea into the harbor were working for/with John Adams. The twist to that story is generally not taught. The reason the tea smugglers threw that tea into the harbor is that King George, in response to protests over the Stamp Act and other tariffs, had CUT the tariff on tea ! That cut was so great that Adams and his fellow smugglers were caught out with tea that they had paid too much for! They had to destroy that British tea in order to be able to sell theirs.

It is only in the very modern world that policy makers have imagined that borders and citizenship are archaic and useless impediments to trade. They have forgotten about the "free rider" problem. Throughout the history of trade, borders and citizenship were a way to force everyone who enjoyed the benefits of government - defense, courts, contract enforcement, property rights, common infrastructure/walls/gates/wells/irrigation - to pay for those benefits. Suppose some stranger walks into town, is he supposed to enjoy what everyone else has previously paid for? No, not so fast. Pay up. Pay a head tax, pay a tariff on the load of grain you brought in, and so on. Of course, this was not always so democratic, it was also, and mainly, just some strong man and his family and his thugs, who set themselves up as royalty, and who threw bones to their bishops and priests to make up stuff like the "divine right of kings" and so on. The point is that that list of the benefits of government is what enabled large scale trade - made it possible for producers: to plant, to build, to manufacture, to specialize. Production precedes sale. And borders and citizenship are critical components.

And the Kennedys were bootleggers and rum runners, at least according to Jimmy Hoffa. But what does that have to do with Brexit? About as much as Obamacare. So unless you care to list all the instances where normal channels were circumvented and all the instances where the truth was kept from the public, you're off-topic. Yours is the third take I've heard on The Boston Tea Party, so which one was the real one? As Oscar Wilde once said, "History is the lies of the victors." And the Golden Rule still applies; "He who has the gold makes the rules."
 
Germany will be left holding the bill, once UK bows out.

What did people think? They'd suck it up and get bigger shovels to handle all the money they'd be throwing away on failed communist plots?
 
Like anything else that's ever been conceived to benefit everyone, someone who needs no benefit will figure out a way to take advantage and ruin it for those in need. Until you start stringing up the frauds and grifters, nothing will fundamentally change. The big problem right now is that many of those frauds and grifters occupy places of power, influence and wealth, most of which came from someone perpetrating frauds and establishing legal means of theft.
 
Danno said:
Until you start stringing up the frauds and grifters, nothing will fundamentally change.

Heck, Capitalism runs on "frauds and grifters" !!
The whole central tenet is that fools and their monies are soon parted.
If you take all the fools out of the equation, the whole plot doesn't work.....

There is currently here a big discussion about multinationals paying no tax.
Google, Apple, etc etc etc pay peanuts on a huge turnover, and have quite the system
to transfer everything to low tax / no tax jurisdictions.
If this ain't fraud and grift, nothing is. ?

No word on how Brexit is going to tackle this ?
Has Mr Trump released his tax returns yet ?
 
texasSlick said:
One Brexit leads to a Dexit ....

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/684 ... pean-union

It seems to me the people want their countries back from the establishmentarians who have only one interest at heart ... the establishmentarians. Same is happening in the USA.

Slick

It's crazy . . . . how the socialist establishment of Deutchland cons the German people into paying for the free riders - the PIGS, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain, etcetera. The reason of course is that the Merkel and her pals sell favoritism to major German interest groups - big labor, big industry, and big banks.
 
I bet you the North American aboriginals had wished they had tighter immigration controls, looking back on things it didn't work out too good for them.
 
Things always seem to go pretty well until politicians and bureaucrats get involved.

Those two classes of people only take, they do not produce.

I posit that "politicians" and "representative lawmakers" are two entirely different sorts. There are still a few idealistic and/or untainted representative lawmakers. Once they ACCEPT a lobbyist through their door (and the lobbyist's sway in their decision making), they have been corrupted to a degree.

Representatives should spend an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM of time in the houses of government, so as to debate and vote on legislation (based on the will of their constituents), then RETURN TO THEIR DISTRICTS and let the PEOPLE come to them in their LOCAL offices, and plead their case for representation on X, Y, and/or Z. THIS ENTIRE PROCESS has been bastardised to the point of the politicians spending only a short amount of time in their districts, BUYING VOTES (with largess gained from taking advantage of their elected positions) to get re-elected.
 
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