Bike cutting out

City Garage said:
In this situation I dont think thats going to work. On all the 961's that we removed the Idle Air Control (IAC) valve does require holding the throttle open slightly during cold starts, which is normal. Every bike we've done this on behaves the same way. As long as the rider gives it a bit of throttle to start when cold, the bike runs perfectly fine. This behavior is typical for setups without an IAC, as the ECU no longer has control over idle airflow during startup. Think older Ducatis with throttle stops on the handlebar

If the throttle stop hasn't been adjusted, then the throttle body should still be aligned with the original ECU calibration settings. This means the throttle plate’s position should be consistent with where it was when the ECU was initially installed and calibrated. Any misalignment here could cause running issues, but if it's unchanged, we can rule that out. Besdies that he stated the bike idles fine. 95% of the time with a bad TPS it wont idle right.

To properly check the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS), using diagnostic software is ideal since it allows you to monitor live data and see if the sensor is settling correctly and reading the full range of motion. An ohmmeter can also be used to confirm that the TPS is reading smoothly across its range, though it’s less precise than software diagnostics.

However, I suspect the issue lies elsewhere...which is why i asked for the temps off the exhaust pipes
Click to expand...
Thank you, the bike won’t tick over at all now, I need throttle to start but can’t rev without bike dying. I can hold Revs at about 2000 rpm if i catch it right. One thing I have noticed but don’t know if it’s related, sometimes after the bike has stalled I have to turn ignition off then on again to be able to spin starter, other times not. Will check exhaust temp asap and let you know.
 
Dave2dogs said:
Thank you, the bike won’t tick over at all now, I need throttle to start but can’t rev without bike dying. I can hold Revs at about 2000 rpm if i catch it right. One thing I have noticed but don’t know if it’s related, sometimes after the bike has stalled I have to turn ignition off then on again to be able to spin starter, other times not. Will check exhaust temp asap and let you know.
Click to expand...
Hi, checked exhaust temps about 5” from head at about 2000rpm left side 135F right side 275F
After stopping left side 163F right side 234F
 
City Garage said:
In this situation I dont think thats going to work. On all the 961's that we removed the Idle Air Control (IAC) valve does require holding the throttle open slightly during cold starts, which is normal. Every bike we've done this on behaves the same way. As long as the rider gives it a bit of throttle to start when cold, the bike runs perfectly fine. This behavior is typical for setups without an IAC, as the ECU no longer has control over idle airflow during startup. Think older Ducatis with throttle stops on the handlebar

If the throttle stop hasn't been adjusted, then the throttle body should still be aligned with the original ECU calibration settings. This means the throttle plate’s position should be consistent with where it was when the ECU was initially installed and calibrated. Any misalignment here could cause running issues, but if it's unchanged, we can rule that out. Besdies that he stated the bike idles fine. 95% of the time with a bad TPS it wont idle right.

To properly check the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS), using diagnostic software is ideal since it allows you to monitor live data and see if the sensor is settling correctly and reading the full range of motion. An ohmmeter can also be used to confirm that the TPS is reading smoothly across its range, though it’s less precise than software diagnostics.

However, I suspect the issue lies elsewhere...which is why i asked for the temps off the exhaust pipes
Click to expand...
Hi again Lance ! What do you think might be wrong with his bike ? I am just curious , thanks .
 
TonyA said:
Hi again Lance ! What do you think might be wrong with his bike ? I am just curious , thanks .
Click to expand...
Oil pump or his inline filter is blocked. no or low oil pressure prevents valves from opening, causing this exact condition. We have had two bikes do this exact same thing. It can be confirmed with a pressure gauge but that's my guess.

I should also mention one of them didn't have the oil pump fix as well
 
Last edited:
Dave2dogs said:

Hi, checked exhaust temps about 5” from head at about 2000rpm left side 135F right side 275F
After stopping left side 163F right side 234F
Click to expand...
First confirm you have oil and its at the correct level. Then pull your inline filter apart to see if there is any blockage in the filter. See my reply to Tony.

There are only a few things that would cause your issue with that temp spread but the bike idles
 
Thank you. I did check the oil yesterday as per the manual. Am I right in the fact that if I remove the dip stick when the bike is cold and level that no oil shows on the dipstick? It does show on the dipstick at the correct level when checked as per the manual. So I’m best starting from scratch and removing oil and filter and filling again with a new filter?
 
Dave2dogs said:
Thank you. I did check the oil yesterday as per the manual. Am I right in the fact that if I remove the dip stick when the bike is cold and level that no oil shows on the dipstick? It does show on the dipstick at the correct level when checked as per the manual. So I’m best starting from scratch and removing oil and filter and filling again with a new filter?
Click to expand...
Does your bike have the in-line oil filter in the oil feed line ? A tubular shaped small cannister with hose barbs in the oil feed line before the oil pump . Make sure this is opened up and cleaned out. You can also check oil pressure too , there is a few photos on this site how I did it.
 
Hi Tony, I’ve had a look and no I don’t have an inline filter. I will have a search for checking oil pressure. Thank you
 
Dave2dogs said:
Hi Tony, I’ve had a look and no I don’t have an inline filter. I will have a search for checking oil pressure. Thank you
Click to expand...
look here :

City Garage

Post in thread 'Hydraulic Lifters - maintenance free?'

TonyA said:
Ok , Back to oil pressure . This is taken from the oil gallery on the l/h side bottom of barrels : oil is cold , 1000rpm , 19 PSI
Hydraulic Lifters - maintenance free?

At 3500 RPM , 45 PSI , I revved it to 5000 RPM momentarily , and I saw 48 PSI .
Hydraulic Lifters - maintenance free?

This is what you need to adapt the gauge : M8 x 1.25 is the gallery thread .

The other end depends on the guage you have , I used a M10 x 1.00 to M8 x 1.25 coupler in the photo :
Click to expand...
Great write up Tony! Thats what a proper working oil pump on a 961 looks like!
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Dave2dogs said:
Hi Tony, I’ve had a look and no I don’t have an inline filter. I will have a search for checking oil pressure. Thank you
Click to expand...
Please double-check the oil line from the tank. Not many people have removed those filters. We had bike where the line was routed oddly and sort of hid the filter. Also, confirm that the feed line(the one from the oil tank isn't kinked. Heat from the engine can deform the hoses as well.

If you are unsure of adequate flow from the oil tank, you can clamp the line closed with a hose pinch, remove hose, and place a container under it to catch oil. Then, remove the clamp. You should get a nice, steady flow of oil with no air or gaps in flow. Then, put oil back in the tank
 
Thank you, will have another look first thing tomorrow, the tank is still off so should be able to follow the oil pipes
 
Good morning, definitely no inline filter and all pipes seem to be fine . Which pipe do I remove to do the test above please?
 
IMHO this appears to be testing the limits of your abilities (as it would mine) and patience.

I would send to Stu, ask him not to rush and to be extremely thorough, pick it up next spring, and enjoy !
 
Hi All, I think at last that I have found the problem. 😀I changed the cam position sensor and bike seems ok now apart from won’t tick over now but with all the fiddling I have done I’m not surprised. Weather is not good here at the moment so can’t test drive but at last I think I have got to the bottom of it . Thank you everyone once again
 
Dave2dogs said:
Hi All, I think at last that I have found the problem. 😀I changed the cam position sensor and bike seems ok now apart from won’t tick over now but with all the fiddling I have done I’m not surprised. Weather is not good here at the moment so can’t test drive but at last I think I have got to the bottom of it . Thank you everyone once again
Click to expand...
Hi Dave , Good Job . It is advised to replace the cam position sensor with a bosch part . Is the idle too slow or too fast now ? Are you running the air Idle motor , I don't recall what you did. Can you bring us up to date on all of this , including year of bike and ecu type ? I looked back and I see it is an 2011 so an early OMEX ecu.
 
Hi Tony, yes 2011 bike 10k miles. Yes early OMEX . Replaced cam sensor with Bosch one. Cables were to tight , so adjusted them and idle way to slow so won’t really idle without stalling. I don’t have the air sensor, it was never fitted as no “orifice “for it . Spoke to Stu at Motorvated who said I need a bit of throttle to start because of no air idle thing. One good thing I suppose is that I’ve learnt a lot about the workings of my bike. Hopefully all good now. Thank you again for your help.
 

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