bending frame on purpose?

Peel's bones in raw state that reveals dent in down tubes enough to see angle change into stem and easy to see her spinal has common curvature but don't know if stem vertical so could actually handle ok if more squared up eh. Any who two things I'd like filling in on, one the most straight forward ways to check and two, how much force must be used to correct things and how to apply it. For the purest check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp5dTIyW20M

primer for a club user like me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyx7b008ji8

Dent in tube!!! "how long is a piece of string"?.... Show us the dent please..
Obviously if there is a dent (bend) in tube there will be tension pulling tube because of the dent/bend..
If i were you i would take measurements and check "straightness" of frame and see how big the animal is. Then assess from there..

If needed and there is a very sharp bend from an impact you will find that if you cut out the "bend" with a hack saw and the frame will spring back to its natural contour within reason, then you only need to "JB" weld a new piece of pipe in to frame......... (the JB weld is a joke :roll: :roll: :roll: )

The material used on the standard frames/tubes is not very stong and can be bent by hand or lever, its nothing special ... Tho others will specify its molecular structure, batch number and who welded it...

Just cut out the dent/bend and have same pipe size welded back in by compatent welder, once the frame is straightened....

If you want i have same pipe size in shed that you may need. i can measure if you want (cant remember now) so you can source prior to cutting...

Thanks for the disparaging encouragement olChris with the slicing and dicing advice, ugh. I'didn't have Peel frame to bare metal before prior powder coat but did find what i called breast buds on Peel's front down tubes the coater blasted paint off w/o me around, which now free of green filler are finger tip deep impressions in clay - which I thought was just over tightening of a past crash bar but now realize are as much bending kinks from impact on prior crash bar clamp points. Photo's will follow but kind of glad to find Peel's frame obviously bent in a least a couple of ways as already proved it don't matter a WSC whit worth to her, whose public 2nd purpose is spanking fatso tire cycles in worst conditions. Peel assembled sweetly so good enough for my main purpose, daily use antics beyond easy racing out of control on pavement. I'm somewhat afraid to mess with her frame alignment much as might spoil the accidental asymmetric compensation of Commando design.

Disparaging!!! I did say it was meant to be a joke :roll: :roll: :roll: ...

IMO those bends will/can straighten to better than what exists with a few good hits with a 2lb hammer and wooden block.. S
Need to stabalize the frame so that when hit it dosnt jump all over the place. This also encourages forces applied to focus on bends ..

If you got a good experienced hammer hand and eye a 3-4lb hammer would also work for me..

Noticing the extra welds around head tube and stiffener on down tubes and alignment/straightness may or may not have already compromised factory alignment.. (were they ever straight??)

If it were my frame i would cut through at the dents, dress them up with podgie or drift to round of joint ends and introduce a new "additional" stiffener at the weld area to blend in , disquise and reinforce new welds.. New stiffener being same as that lower one..

Frame spine distortion are exactly the same as my 2 norton frames.. Factory issued i believe...

Un uh - hammer happy as I am I recoil at whacking anymore on Peel's bones till I have more objective alignment guidance. Another thing is it took a month to make OIF hair line leaks show up and fix and test so talked myself out of what is just cometic and for rubbing raw those hung up on WSC significance. To get away with what Peel did makes one a bit superstitious like performers that have a lucky item to wear on carry. All the excess tab-age tube is non functional junk performance wise, expect for the rump frame link. Feels distinctly lighter w/o the powder coat so fairly thin paint job to finish.

Hours of raw metal handling leaves metallic flavor on hands and in head.

You treat your bike like it was a dirt bike. No surprise it's all tweeked up as it is.
I've seen your videos. Not for the faint of heart!
The worlds straightest Norton,,,, then theres yours.
Keep up the good work.

Back in the mid sixties I did re-shape a wide line featherbed frame (bolted-up rear end) so that I could use the slim-line type seat and fuel tank.
It was a Triton that I was building, and I liked the look of the later tank and seat. It wasn't too much of a job, I used a small hydraulic jack and some lengths of chain and a couple of blowlamps to heat the tubes where I wanted them to bend.

Don't think I would be concerned about those down tubes. They are not that bad. As for the main tube, was it was built like that. To bend that tube it may have had a good front end belt on the suspension. The bends in the down tubes would not have caused that. It seems you use that bike like a motocross machine. You probably wont be doing 100 mph on it [ unless of course you ride big distances to get to some of your rough patches ] Just slap a good coat or two of a good brushing enamel on it and use it.
Dereck

Probably best to cut out and weld in new sections of tube.

As a first try at straightening, you might try taking two short 2x4 blocks, clamping together, wood boring a channel equal to tube diameter between the blocks, then separating the blocks, fitting together again with bent section of tube in the bored channel, then clamping blocks.

Removing dings might be accomplished by tapping 10-32, or 1/4-28 into the ding center, then with a piece of flat stock bridging the ding, and with a clearance hole for a screw, thread the screw into the tapped hole and try pulling out the ding. If it doesn't strip the thread, you might accomplish something.

Good luck.

Slick

I think Dereck's live with it assessment is the right one, to point I'm betting imperfect Peel is best road-track handling cycle ever. So If I do find stem out of square it puts me in dilemma if corrected to demo what really matters in a Commando and performance cycles in general. May yet apply a wood block bashing and Texasslick wood cuffs compression method just because I like looking at frame symmetry much as anyone. Giving thought on how too tweak I think I'd haul to weld shop to rig up a frame out of scrap then strap/chain down to jack, lever and winch towards rightness. Bob Patton did some calcs on the side loads that turns might develop into swing arm to find 300 lb range but that don't take into account Phase Three & Four crash like snaps. Off road can't develop such side loads w/o hitting something as tires let go too easy. Springs should take that up more than frame.

You can get too carried away with all this. About the worst thing that can happen is that the swing arm pivot is slightly out of square to the steering axis. The rest is all adjustable, by spacers, etc.

Back in the 60s, when BSA and Norton went to great lengths to make sure both wheels were centred in the frame, Triumph were out-handling them in production races by offsetting the rear wheel 1/16" toward the primary. There is good reason for that; think about it.

hobot said:

I think Dereck's live with it assessment is the right one, to point I'm betting imperfect Peel is best road-track handling cycle ever. So If I do find stem out of square it puts me in dilemma if corrected to demo what really matters in a Commando and performance cycles in general. May yet apply a wood block bashing and Texasslick wood cuffs compression method just because I like looking at frame symmetry much as anyone. Giving thought on how too tweak I think I'd haul to weld shop to rig up a frame out of scrap then strap/chain down to jack, lever and winch towards rightness. Bob Patton did some calcs on the side loads that turns might develop into swing arm to find 300 lb range but that don't take into account Phase Three & Four crash like snaps. Off road can't develop such side loads w/o hitting something as tires let go too easy. Springs should take that up more than frame.

Click to expand...

Please please get a rubber mallet/hammer and belt the frame at the impact site... 3 hits with rubber mallet and it will move.... Please try this before the weld shop puk around.. The frame is so very weak in direction that you need it too move... I bet if you were 35 yrs old again you could straighten/improve it by hand....

Is this the frame that you have been using for your own experimental crash bar system, as the indents on the front down tubes look similar and consistent to crash bars being mounted there :?:

You can get too carried away with all this. About the worst thing that can happen is that the swing arm pivot is slightly out of square to the steering axis. The rest is all adjustable, by spacers, etc. Back in the 60s, when BSA and Norton went to great lengths to make sure both wheels were centred in the frame, Triumph were out-handling them in production races by offsetting the rear wheel 1/16" toward the primary. There is good reason for that; think about it.

Click to expand...

Boy oh boy xfile is that a heavy statement to make on this proper alinged forum but pretty much my attitude, if it can be assembled then good enough for me. I found out BMW sent their 80's models out with rear off set from front - though know a fella that sold his the 1st time it went into wobbles on a freeway ~90 mph. Past Peel was pure Norton so got away in spades with the rear offset ~ 3/8" to DS-primary side, which pissed me off trying to center fender to it. Commando are heavier on primary side but don't know if Norton shifted wheel for that reason or just left if that way when power unit offset for chain clearnace. Current Peel has centered rear rim to stem but don't know if shot her handling capasity in the foot or not.

Chris's blindly whambamthankyoumamm makes sense at 1st strike but I just put ruler across the down tubes an inch below stem to find them parallel to the top crash bar cross peice but an inch above the dents shows the RH 'backward' bent tube is actaully forward of the other so the ruler is obviously out of square sticking forward on R back on L - so straighten by pounding forward would make more out of square where it may matter. I've done a lot of levering on my 2 Combats to be depressed how easy to move to any lasting [plastic] bending occurred. Until I weled on the front low hard points I could twist a down tube with just screw driver in tab hole but tried just now to fail to deflect it visablly. Same with Z plate tugging by hand last year got easy to see/feel motion so had tabs welded on that Harley 1/2" rear set foot peg bolts to so now too rigid to move. Peel may be only isolatic to twist frame up from swing arm side loads, hi enough it hi sides her [on purpose] so using the braced Z plates to mount swash plates that contact swing arm about mid way to shock mount to help spread the severe loads into frame besides the isolastics triangulated with the 3 radius rods.

Bernhard Peels frame came pre injured before my time as local few counties and 2 states famous test bike that got sold to couple-3 hot rodders whose hobby was drag racing ahead into the 80's then moved to more powerful moderns. The crash cage has only been tested to fit and thrown down w/o power unit installed. I did have a foot bar on the fork brace that saved Peel a couple times when thrown down, once by heat locking front sleeved brake and a few stand sunk in ground or I dropped in shed on going slow on THE Gravel - so mirrors, signals and tank protected.

Will get back after I put enough back together to make sense of Peels shape.

By whatever method you use to straighten tubes and remove dings, stress relieve the worked area by gently heating with a torch. A hair dryer will not be hot enough. Any visual color change of the metal is way too hot.

Slick

Guido said:

You treat your bike like it was a dirt bike. No surprise it's all tweeked up as it is.
I've seen your videos. Not for the faint of heart!

Click to expand...

linky?

Where are Steve's videos ? I'd like to see them. I think a commando would be very unwieldy on the dirt.

acotrel said:

Where are Steve's videos ? I'd like to see them. I think a commando would be very unwieldy on the dirt.

Click to expand...

or up a dry rocky riverbed !

Thanks for helping turn Commando drudgery process into some entertainment. Talking over with other local DIY frame fixers, with Peel wheelie slam downs, leaps off ledges and landing in hidden holes from berm jumps, better put a strip of back up tube on the fronts of frame and may slice down tubes to beat back closer. Shooting in the dark is how Peel and me got harsh shocks playing Steven McQueen both racing arcoss sea of green swells and leaps in joy till it hurts. Collecting options to apply once I know where alignments are. Took car to welder to access for robust animal=deer bumper-crusher and told he can weld decent SS to mild steel with MIG-wire just leaves a rust prone bead area. So Peel may end up like someone with two sliver crowns in their smile, ie: paint around strips that can't be brightened up : ) Digital was still in bulky expensive formats when Peel was in her prime and a big hawk took out my fancy Cannon machine gun drive film camera about then so only my word and main withness spanking squids like nobody's business and chidded me so angry on my behavior after pointing out where he lost his best buddy on R1 in Ozarks bluff face chiances > got T-Boned dead in Texas a few seasons later. I am out of my mind with life's realities so don't want any more thank you very much. Peel is my escape into LSD fractal Paisleys, with sharply bent whipped tails at the end