Battery confusion

RVR961

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I was hoping to finally get out on my '17 Sport today, but surprise, surprise, she wouldn't catch and then the 'click-click' of a weak battery.
After the last service, the battery was marginal and although I've got it on a permanent trickle charge, I guess three years is about as long as they last these days.
The manual says replace with a Yuasa YTX-14BS, but searching on the forum, people have suggested a YTZ 14S.
Some threads have mentioned a Shorai replacement, but I've generally been happy with Yuasa's on my other bikes and might as well keep it standard.
Apologies if the info is on here somewhere, but I can't seem to find it.
Any advice appreciated.
 
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Hi man, I just spent the last couple of months going throught my naked, Tried 4 diff batterys inc all the lith ion and all had various issues, to big, leads hit the tank, not compatible with the Alt Reg rec setup. the best one to fit is a good old Yuasa YTX 12 BS. fits the box, dosent stretch the battery leads, cranks the motor no problem. I updated the regulator to this kit, made a custom harness charging is a perfect 14.1- 14.5 V on a fluke multi meter. https://www.canyonmotorcycles.com/p...20aa-custom-harness-kit-for-all-triumph-twins
 

BritTwit

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I replaced the original battery with like and kind YTZ-14S. It is a sealed unit with 230 CCA. The YTX-14BS has 200 CCA, and comes this a container of acid that you have to pour into the battery.

The Shorai is less than half the weight of the Yuasa units, and some on this forum have had good experiences with them. They may required a different trickle charger deigned specifically for Lithium batteries.
 
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From the Shorai Website :

Q. Will a Shorai battery work in my vehicle?
A. The short answer is yes! Shorai batteries are an easy drop-in replacement upgrade. Your vehicle charging system should be working within standard spec (generally that means charging at 13.6-14.4 volts when running), and please use our Battery Finder to select the correct battery for your vehicle. Call us for a recommendation if you don't see your vehicle listed or if you have a custom built motorcycle.

My Shorai battery is 4 years in my Norton 961 . I have been keeping it charged with a Deltran Battery Tender . I have been on two long (more than 2,000 miles ea.) road trips with this battery . When I need a replacement I will be getting another Shorai.
 
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Same here Tony, after my initial ownership period of failed/bad starts using the Yuasa I switched to the Shorai. It wasn't an easy decision due to the cost + charger, but I've had nearly 2 years of perfect starts. I recently put my original 2 year old Yuasa back on to get some mileage out of it (yes, a really dumb thing to do) and immediately reverted to failed/bad starts. The Shorai is back on the bike and stays on this time.
 

Stephen_Spencer

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Chewed through my third Yuasa battery In a little less than three years. The original failed immediately. New Shorai arrived yesterday, fully charged by Shorai Aus before delivery. Arrived to the door within 3 days of ordering. I’ll fit it and the battery leads for my NOCO Genious 3500 charger and will hopefully see the back of my starting problems. She’s running beautifully other than that.

When doing my research for the charger, I did not look at Shorai‘s own charger. I regret this as it would probably have been the better option. The NOCO was a bit expensive but gets a really good writeup for charging both Lead Acid and Lithium Iron batteries. I have both of these on my bikes. I still intend to leave the bike permanently on the charger although I am not sure that this is necessary or beneficial. Any advice on this would be appreciated. Not sure about changing the Regulator yet - more research required. I know Tony did. Did you Mx? Thanks.
 
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I did replace my rectifier/regulator . If you are getting readings that are too low , too high or just plain wrong - replace it - use heat paste on the backside !
From earlier post , look for the link to Amazon or Ebay for Norton replacements. :


My Shorai is 4 years old and still working good too . I did replace my rectifier/regulator last year , more as a test and precautionary measure . I did a voltage meaurement at the Tender charge lead with Fluke DVM to report here :

Key off = 13.25 VDC (bike was just on charger , charger now disconnected)
Key on lights on low beam = 12.7 VDC
Bike started and idling 1300 RPM = 13.6 VDC
Engine rev to steady 3000 RPM = 14.3 VDC
my Bike :
 

Stephen_Spencer

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Hey Tony,

Back to Richards thread a few months ago about voltage increasing or decreasing when revved. Don’t think we reached a conclusion. Mine is acting as follows - just about to fit the Shorai to fix this, hopefully!

Bike hooked up to a tender.
- Tender reads 12.6V (with bike ignition off)
- Turn ignition on (lights off) - instrument matches tender and shows 12.6V
- Hit starter, fails to start. As it’s cranking instrument reads incrementally lower voltage and then the word LOW shows briefly. Repeat 3 times. No start.
- Forth attempt, engine starts, instrument shows voltage building over a few seconds to read 14.4V. Tender shows 14.4v when engine is idling.
- Rev engine, instrument shows voltage drop from 14.4V to 14.2v, each time the bike is revved. It returns to 14.4v each time.

A few questions remain methinks. To be answered by an electrical wizard - that certainly ain’t me!
 
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You have probably done this. But , Check all your connections , the big plug at the regulator check closely for corrosion , clean re-seat and grease . Main fuse under tank and connections at the battery . The change from 14.4 to 14.2 is not to worry about . As the revs increase the regulator is firing (turning on) the regulator harder (more) to keep the voltage in check. The price of a regulator I posted is cheap , its worth it to try it out if your getting the same results. Very easy to do it. When you are going down the road say 60 MPH turn the VDO voltmeter on and check this before and after your service.
 
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Not sure about changing the Regulator yet - more research required. I know Tony did. Did you Mx? Thanks.
I am still on the factory fitted regulator. My charging setup appears to be behaving as expected (I was going to say 'normal' but nothing is normal on a 961!) but I haven't made notes, from memory the initial reading key on high 12v (12.6 ?), crank engine and voltage remains high 12V (with the Yuasa it rapidly drops down and quickly shows 'LOW' on the bikes display then gives up after a few cranks, but the Shorai is fairly constant), engine idling volts quickly climbs to 13.2-13.6V, rev engine or go for a run and it climbs up above 14V but will drop to high 13v if I sit at lights on tickover.

I keep my Shorai on 'store' mode on it's charger and if I remember I set it to 'charge' 20mins before a ride but the bike will still start if I forget. The bike will still drain the battery if it isn't kept on trickle charge. The Shorai has a built in multi-pin charge point with a short fly-lead which I have routed out from the front of the tank to the rear of the headlight shell for access, this allows the dedicated charger to maintain each cell independently.
 

Stephen_Spencer

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Thanks guys, great advice as ever. Have to admit that I have’nt done much checking beyond the detail above, as you suggest Tony. My mind set has been that it’s likely just another fantastic foible of our favourite steed. I’ll have a closer look although I doubt it will be any corrosion; I don’t ride her if the long range weather forecast shows a 2% chance of raino_O. I’ll also look more closely at the regulator you posted.

Wish I’d gone for the Shorai charger however I’ll see how I go with the NOCO. Just got to check that it does’nt have have an ‘automatic sulphation mode’ (or has the ability to turn it off). This is stipulated in the Shorai battery literature.

I’ll keep you posted on what I find. Love learning stuff on this forum and look forward to that distant day where I may be able to dispense some wisdom. Don’t hold your breath!
 
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Thanks guys, great advice as ever. Have to admit that I have’nt done much checking beyond the detail above, as you suggest Tony. My mind set has been that it’s likely just another fantastic foible of our favourite steed. I’ll have a closer look although I doubt it will be any corrosion; I don’t ride her if the long range weather forecast shows a 2% chance of raino_O. I’ll also look more closely at the regulator you posted.

Wish I’d gone for the Shorai charger however I’ll see how I go with the NOCO. Just got to check that it does’nt have have an ‘automatic sulphation mode’ (or has the ability to turn it off). This is stipulated in the Shorai battery literature.

I’ll keep you posted on what I find. Love learning stuff on this forum and look forward to that distant day where I may be able to dispense some wisdom. Don’t hold your breath!
Don't even think about buying a cheap replacement battery a Shorai is a must buy for your Norton it will pay you back many times over the original ones are garbage. The 961 needs a big electric kick to get it going.
 
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I'm have 4 years on my Yuasa lead acid. Keep it on the tender. That said, Its only reading 11.9V key on where it used to read 12.6. Leave it off the tender for a week, it still fires right up but my digital display freezes and/or resets the trip back to zero until it charges up.
 

Stephen_Spencer

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So,

I got around to changing the standard battery over to the Shorai. A few uninformed observations:

1. Shorai is 3 kg less in weight - got to be a good thing right! Although I’ve put 5 kg on during lockdown - ho hum!
2. There was a significant amount of white residue in the battery tray from the old battery. Corrosion salts - sulfation? Don’t want this shit on your beutiful tank!
3. Shorai has the same base dimensions so drops straight into the tray however, is much shorter - 20mm +. Problem - battery strap no longer functions. Solution - Shorai packaging includes firm foam sections of varying thicknesses that fit exactly to the tray. Used these to pack Shorai to the same height and secure battery. I’ll keep an eye on whether they compress over time. Battery tender charging cable fitted with battery.
4. Bike left on tender overnight.
5. Ignition on, instrument reads 13.5v, an improvement on the original battery 12.6v. Multimeter reads 13.66v via the charging cable (multi-meter).
5. Bike still fails to start first time. It used to when the original Lead Acid battery was in good condition
6. When cranking ‘LOW’ immediately appears on display before voltage incrementally increases to 13.5v.
7. Third or forth time it starts. Same as original immediately before battery replacement. Display slowly increases to 14.5v / 14.6v. Bike ticks over as normal.
8. Revving the bike, voltage drops (not increases - still to be explained) from 14.5v to 14.4-14.3v.

So the starting characteristics have not changed between batteries despite the Shorai holding a higher voltage. I have’nt ridden the bike for over a month now so will get out for a good run to see how it performs, whilst keeping an eye on the voltage readout. Meanwhile I guess I’ll start looking for other reasons for my starting woes. Further input from the brains trust would be welcome.

After note: Visited the garage for a last try and she started first prod of the button. From cold, overnight on the tender. Guess this thing was never gonna start (or behave) like a Honda! She’s unique, no doubt about it.
 

speirmoor

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Sometimes the Shorai need to be “Awake” when you hit the starter button. It’s a characteristic of that technology. Turn on Key and leave lights on for 20-30 sec before you hit the starter. What’s unusual is that this characteristic is usually more common in colder temperatures. Is it cold where you keep your machine?
Does your headlight dim when you hit the starter? It seem you have a huge draw at start up time
 
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If I understand this correctly , When you press the starter button the engine spins fast enough to start but does not fire up ? Is this what you are getting ? Have you ever pulled the head temp sensor , check it with an ohm meter ? Approx 2K ohm at 25 deg C ? As SCS explained this tells the ECU when it is cold . Alternatively , next time you start it cold engine and it is cranking fast but not firing up GIVE SOME THROTTLE while cranking . When you do this the TPS will tell the ECU extend the INJ pulse widths . Don't continue the same old routine every time. I hope this helps , it should.
 
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Sometimes the Shorai need to be “Awake” when you hit the starter button. It’s a characteristic of that technology. Turn on Key and leave lights on for 20-30 sec before you hit the starter. What’s unusual is that this characteristic is usually more common in colder temperatures. Is it cold where you keep your machine?
Does your headlight dim when you hit the starter? It seem you have a huge draw at start up time
If he has an SCS post Dec 2013 , then he has a crank time lights off relay which should cut out the head lamp during cranking.
 
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