Autolite AP63 Plugs

gosh look at all the fun I missed being a Computer Science major! All I had was the basic three semesters of eng physics and 1st semester diff eq. Physics was interesting, diff eq was, well, ugly. Glad I didn't have to go any further (or is that farther?)

norbsa, your equations don't seem to be showing up. Can you fix it? I might learn something

Debby

Yes Debby, Google can find it but the little server that couldn't, couldn't print the Equations . It's kind of like Dyno Dave graphs you need Exceel software to pull them off the page. Now if my phyics proff. were here I am sure he could walk me through the maze. What would be fun to have is a program that could predict horsepower gain using sound waves in different exhast systems, carb and ing. tweaking and so on. But you would still need Dynos to prove it out. I left the text without the Equations because the text alone showed so well the limits of using math tools to find the heart of the beast. By using sound waves one can get an air pump to displace more air than it's capasity but I am fairly sure that it wasn't an "A"math student who found this out. norbsa

Debby,

To summarize: there is no heat transfer in an adiabatic process. And there is no change in temperature in an isothermal gas process.

A good example of an adibatic process is the sudden discharge of a CO2 cartridge. The cartridge becomes cold to the touch because the process took place so quicly; there's simply not enough time for heat to be absorbed from the surrounding atmospehre.

Now, if instead the gas were alowed to leak out of the cartridge slowly, over say a two hour period, the temperature would not change. This is because there is plenty of time for heat absorbtion. In this case, the gas is said to be expanding isothermally. Most gas calculations assume an isothermal process.

It's difficult for me to calculate the energy in a system that is behaving adibaticly. Norbsa - do you have the 23rd edition of "Machinery's Handbook"? If so, check out the polytropic exponent they use for Nitrogen expanding adibaticly.

I'm not quite sure what all this has to do with Nortons but it's interesting to me. I appologize for the divergence.

Regards,

Jason

Test Ride

Jason,
Anytime! ...although we are getting near the end of the riding season. Let me know if your serious. We have a couple of good local rallies in June.

Cheers,

Derek

Hey Derek, Can I come ride an Electria? I promise not to syndrome it. I have a buddy here with two but they don't run. We busted into the motor on one and it realy impressed me. Good cases, deep spigioted jugs, cool head design, Strong looking transmission. When he first got them I called domnie racer for parts (they have some) and the man there said well just after the electric start failed the kick starter would brake. Man what a shame this thing could have given the other import bikes fitts by the look of them. Ever thashed one hard? I head the frame was kinda spongey too? But those sweet little full valanced fenders and all that tasty sheet metal body work they sit so nice and low. I just bought a 74 RD250 Yam for my Boy's buddy and the guy selling it did a demo ride he like me goes 230 lb and does some great wheelies on the thing. So much for thinking 250's can't be fast. And the Electra's a 383 cc. norbsa

Of course!! I'm looking forward to to riding them, too!! I've almost got my Dad's '63 finished, and I plan on doing a rolling resto on my '64. The '65 is just a frame and an engine, so it is becoming a heavyweight vintage trials bike

You are right about the engine & tranny: one piece forged crank, high cams/short push rods, gear drive timing side, huge connecting rods, short stroke... I think that the biggest let down are the heads. If they could be reworked, the engine looks like it could be a contender!!

The frame is a real let down, it's a beefed up Frances-Barnett (or maybe Rube Goldberg?) design. I read that when the Jubilee was designed, the original intention was to used a scaled down Featherbed, but you know how the story goes...

As far as parts go, I was really surprised at availability. I have an original parts book, and Walridge was able to get almost everythng that I needed.

Cheers,

Derek

Derek, Just got my copy of Classic Bike and on the cover "Lost Norton" article an up sized Electra if I ever saw one. The Bultoco 250 frame might just come the closest to getting it all right. The thing about the head is that they still run the flat top pistons and the Norton combustion chamber. So you can bump the CR and still not get the pingging of the BSA's and Triumph's. norbsa

(I am not a guest, just can't get into forum with registration info I have so I have given up on Jerry). Anyway I was in the local parts store and cross checked the AP 63/64 with what I use for plugs which is NGK BPR7ES. Only cross reference is AP64 with BP6ES (which I use in my '69 Alfa Romeo). I know the BP6ES is hotter than the BPR7ES so I am not sure about using the AP64 in my '73 850. Hotter plugs should be the very last thing you do to try to correct a problem since you are now making a major change and it can cause problems. You real bike mechanics know this (I am not a mechanic). Any thoughts from you pros?

The only time I have been advised by the "mechanics" to use the hotter plug available, for any engine, alfa romeo included , was if a cylinder was using oil.

It was generally a temporary fix until I fixed the oil problem.

Having said that, I was once sold a 68 Triumph that "glowed" cherry red at the exhaust. It was running a bit lean..........Being young & inexperienced, I rode that Triumph around for a while like that. It was still running when I sold it.

So I reckon you would have to run a very hot plug to damage an engine ?

I am using the AP63 plugs, if Matt Rambow from CNW thinks they are OK, I guess he has done some experimenting & thinks they are a good thing.

For the moment that will do me...........3 year guarentee also :!:

Dennyt,
I have two Norton's A74 850 and a 72 750. My boy and I just did the trip to Mid-Ohio and back at 80 mph most of the way. Thats 500 miles for each bike at piston melting speed. I have done at least 1500 miles since all on AP64's.
I read my plugs as I went through different tuning stages. Your bike could respond in some other way. No ones saying that this is the only way. I still have friends that run Chapion RN9YC's and some who run WRP7 Boch's And I even know some one trying to use NGK's. My bikes chew these plugs up and so I have found a plug that can take it and give better running to boot.
My bikes run Boyer's, Dyna coils, solid copper wires, NGK 90 boots that hold on the threaded end of the plug. The plugs are set at .035. These changes to the bikes and the gas we get now require changes to plugs and carb settings.
I had to teach myself to read plugs in a new way to get to this point. You have to do your own reading and thinking it's your machine.
Carbon build up has bent a few valves around here, not my bikes but I try to learn from others mistakes. When you read your plugs your looking for color deep down inside around the center ceramic you need good light an a magnifier glass. The part of the plug you see with average eye sight should be white with no black specks.
This type of reading is done on the plugs when there fairly new and the machine has been run on a highway at 4000 rpm and above for five miles in a row. You have to than kill the motor and stop to read the plugs. Plug chops are not fun no one likes the dead stick landings required.
I love to make my Norton's faster and better machines I am pulling 50 MPG and 50 HP on the rear wheel Dyno tested and my got my 750 down to 390lb's it's a great package. It started life with me as a 150.00 basket case and has taken 15 years of work. I don't want to blow up your Norton so do your own testing. norbsa

ap64 gap setting

What is the recommended gap setting for the AP64 anyhoo?

It really depends on the coil & wires you are running. Norbsa is running a Dyna coil with 0.035" gap. I'm running a Harley Sportster coil with 0.040" gap. If your running stock coils, I would recommend running stock gap (IIRC 0.026" gap?, it's been a long time for me, look it up in the manual)

Cheers,

Derek

Platinum tipped Autolites Rule!

I have been using the autolite AP63 plugs for 2 & a half months now.
They have been fantastic, they do not foul up at all like the standard plugs usually do. Personally, I would use nothing but the "platinum" type from now on.

My bike is a "first kicker", 90% of the time & I do attribute some of that to the plugs.

Try them & you will see the difference they make.( no, i don't have shares in the company !)

norbsa48503 said:

When you read your plugs your looking for color deep down inside around the center ceramic you need good light an a magnifier glass. The part of the plug you see with average eye sight should be white with no black specks.

Click to expand...

So what do the black specs mean? Rich, plug too cold, timing???
I am running AP63's with Amal MK1's

MichaelB, Well first start with a fresh clean set before going ape. Now if you have been riding often and the carbs are well sorted. Little black specks could mean that alum. in Molten form is flying about. Don't panic it's almost always bits of carbon breaking loose from the rich idle MK-1's produce. To prove it you have to do the nasty task.
Plug chop with isolation. Ok fresh plugs ride off to your closest high speed road. On the way stay out of the idle circut 4000 rpm. Now hold the bike at 5000 for a mile or two use the kill button and do the dead stick landing no idle circut. Read the plugs now, no specks no problem. Most common cause of specks is timming too advanced. norbsa

hi gang... long time no see. have been trying out a few things...

i think i may be running a bit rich (haven't delved into the mikuni settings yet) but w/ freshly cleaned plugs (BP8ES- not sure if it's ideal, that's why i found this thread ) it starts w/o too much effort.

i'll be trying out a few different plugs soon, but still have a question. once it fires, after riding around for 10 min then stopping it will flat out refuse to fire. plugs get 'wet fouling' that's sooty black as well.

as a temporary band aid fix, will hotter plugs run a little happier w/ a rich jetting?

thanks.

}{arlequin, You would need to write out the current jet set up for anyone to help you. Air cleaner type and condition, Pilot jet size, air jet size, Slide cutaway#, needle jet #, needle #, main jet #, Float hight, Which clip groove??????? Is it timed with a strobe light? do you have a carb problem? If you are coking a plug in ten min. no plug will save you. Tell us how your choke works?Witch way cable tight cable loose?

norbsa,
thanks for the breakdown. so far i've only been wingin' it by guessing at solutions. i see to make it a reliable 'starter' i need to really get into it. i'm due anyway.

possibly a silly question here, when you guys delve deep into your carbs, it's best to remove the whole thing from the bike, right? i have a single mikuni... i only ask b/c on my car *most* of that stuff can be done w/o removing the carbs.

It's the easy way, unscrew the nuts off the petcocks,unscrew the top plastic nut, pull the carb body free leaving the the top,slide and needle dangling by the cable. Do your work on a well light bench with a magnifier handy for reading and recording the size of everything. Before reinserting the slide assembly back into the carb record were the clip engages the needle #1,#2,or #3.

}{arlequin said:

possibly a silly question here, when you guys delve deep into your carbs, it's best to remove the whole thing from the bike, right? i have a single mikuni... i only ask b/c on my car *most* of that stuff can be done w/o removing the carbs.

Click to expand...

As the original Amal (Mk1) carbs are flange mounted it is normally easiest to remove them to work on them. Although if you have a single (VM type?) Mikuni with the rubber stub mounting you could loosen the intake hose clamp and twist the carb to get to the jets after removing the carb top and slide, but I think you may find it easier to remove the carb to check the float setting, but the Mikuni is a fairly simple carb to work on and is easy to remove and replace.

http://www.mikuni.com/pdf/vmmanual.pdf