are these two different models ('70 commando)

goo · Nov 21, 2011

note the front fender

are these two different models ('70 commando)

shit..can't find a picture of the one i'm getting but it has a smaller (glass?) front fender.
update
found it

DogT · Nov 21, 2011

The short glass fender you have on the green one is an aftermarket fender. The 68-70 (chromed) fenders were real tight to the tyre and was hard to get much more than a 300-19 under it. In 71 they went to longer stays and bigger arc fender so they could put larger tyres on it. It's hard to see in pictures, but if you put the early and late stays next to each other the later ones are about an inch longer. The bridge is longer on the 71 up too.

Dave
69S

rvich · Nov 21, 2011

As long as we are talking fenders (mudguards) here, my 750 front fender's trailing edge is plain with no rolled edge. My 850 has the rolled edge on both the leading and the trailing edge. Any comments? I know, it is a blatant thread hijacking but...

Russ

DogT · Nov 21, 2011

I would like to see a definitive front fender (mudguard) thread, especially on the early bikes. According to the Spares Book, all the different models, fastback, S, R, Roadster Fastback II all had slightly different fenders and stays. Then there's 'Home' and 'Export' and they appear different too. My S front guard has a rolled front and plain back.

Dave
69S

Ron L · Nov 21, 2011

It would appear that the front end on the black model in the picture has been replaced with a '71-'72 model. A '70 Roadster should have the "halo" for the headlamp and the narrow chrome fender and stays (too narrow for a 4.10H-19 front). The '71-'72 had a wider chrome front fender and stays that allowed use of the same size tire front and rear.

dave M · Nov 21, 2011

Goo, the black bike has parts from different year models on it. As Ron L points out the headlamp holding arrangement idsfor a later model as are the triple clamps, although the handlebar controls appear to be the earlier type, the central oil tank and side panels are from pre 1971, however the seat, grab rail and rear light assembly are from a later model (larger reflectors). The bike appears to have a cush-drive rear wheel a late model chain guard and an 850 kick-start lever.
Is the centre stand bolted to the frame or to the gearbox carrier plates and is there a cross bar at the front near the front isolastic mount or is the cross bar at the back supporting the centre stand? This will tell you what era the frame comes from. i suspect that it is a later frame because the triple clamps from a later frame will not simply bolt into an earlier frame without quit a a bit of modification to the frame itself.

Matt Spencer · Nov 21, 2011

Same Bike ?

goo · Nov 21, 2011

dave M said:
Goo, the black bike has parts from different year models on it. As Ron L points out the headlamp holding arrangement idsfor a later model as are the triple clamps, although the handlebar controls appear to be the earlier type, the central oil tank and side panels are from pre 1971, however the seat, grab rail and rear light assembly are from a later model (larger reflectors). The bike appears to have a cush-drive rear wheel a late model chain guard and an 850 kick-start lever.
Is the centre stand bolted to the frame or to the gearbox carrier plates and is there a cross bar at the front near the front isolastic mount or is the cross bar at the back supporting the centre stand? This will tell you what era the frame comes from. i suspect that it is a later frame because the triple clamps from a later frame will not simply bolt into an earlier frame without quit a a bit of modification to the frame itself.

found the picture!

my question is can i put a chrome fender on it from a later year and is such a thing available?
thx,
goo

Chris T · Nov 21, 2011

Just one further change from stock; neither of these bikes have the semi shrouded shock absorbers that were standard on 1970 roadsters (and I think all other 1970 models)

DogT · Nov 21, 2011

goo said:
my question is can i put a chrome fender on it from a later year and is such a thing available?
thx,
goo

Yes, but the early (pre 71) stays and fenders are nearly impossible to find. You can put a 71 or later fender (chrome or SS) and stays on it, meaning you can fit larger tyres on the front too. Any good vendor should have the stays and mudguard, Old Britts, Fair Spares, Walridge, etc. Make sure you get the correct stays for the mudguard, they're not all the same.

Dave
69S

Matt Spencer · Nov 21, 2011

Looks like the Stainless Steel rear guard on the Green Machine ?
Youd tend to get a matching type , stainless or chromed .

Then , the Fibreglass guard is lighter . So better for street raceing .

rightshiftrick · Nov 22, 2011

Hmm, When I bought my bike (early '70 Roadster), the fairly new 4.10 K81 front had some nice grooves cut in it from the fender stay mounting bolts. Fitted a 90/90-19 Avon, and all is good. Mine is stainless, but I never noticed if it was narrower than later bikes. May also be why a set of nicely painted stays from a friend didn't want to fit properly on it. Are there general measurements for the early and later fenders? I thought someone had posted them earlier, but my search fu is off.

RSR

DogT · Nov 22, 2011

Here's the stays and bridge from an Apr 69 S. The fastback, R, and Roadster all have different numbers in the Spares Book and I am not sure of the difference. I think the 71 and newer are all about an inch longer and a bit wider too. I don't think stainless came in until after 71 sometime. There are also 2 styles of early rear mudguards, mounting is a bit different in the front. that's the later style oil tank in the pic too, the earlier one had the breather going into the top hat thingie.

Dave
69S

rightshiftrick · Nov 22, 2011

Thanks for the measurements. MAkes me wonder. My Rear fender is the same as the one on the right (non painted), also has the recess for the tire pump on the upper left. Oil tank is the same as shown (breather separate from top-hat). The front fender is stainless, but the fork lower mounting plate is closer to 4.5" long, so most likely a later fender. Could have been mounting that made it rub...but I don't see how the K81 style tyre was rubbing if they were common on later models. It was a Chen Sheen....bad copy? possible bad mounting hardware?

RSR

DogT · Nov 22, 2011

You can't mix stays, bridges and mudguards. The arc is different for the longer stays. I think a lot of the early mudguards were discarded in favor of the larger tyres. The early bikes came with 300-19 ribbed Avon SpeedMaster MKII. I know a guy that's been looking for an early fender for over a year now and every time we think we've found one, it's a newer one.

Dave
69S

850cmndo · Nov 22, 2011

So what are the dimensions of the early front fender side to side? I might have "something" here.

swooshdave · Nov 22, 2011

Do you have more pictures of the green fender?

DogT · Nov 22, 2011

swooshdave said:
Do you have more pictures of the green fender?

I know, you want to paint it yellow?

Dave

DogT · Nov 22, 2011

850cmndo said:
So what are the dimensions of the early front fender side to side? I might have "something" here.

4.65" at the front right behind where the roll ends, 4.4" at the bridge and 4.4" at the rear stay +_ about .025". Here's a pic of the length.

If you could help this guy out, he'd really like it.

Dave
69S

Rohan · Nov 22, 2011

DogT said:
swooshdave said:

Do you have more pictures of the green fender?

Click to expand...

I know, you want to paint it yellow?
Dave

I have a yellow fender rather like that green one.
I bought it years ago, it was just an el cheapo fiberglass cafe racer one, made to fit anything - Hondas Nortons etc etc . Although it will need hose clamps to fit ?

Are there genuine Norton versions of it ?
How do you tell ?

are these two different models ('70 commando)

Similar threads