Another Tri-spark Complaint

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Re TS systems that have been working for years:

My TS has been in place since '08; mileage since then is 22,047. The rest of the system has been:

1. From '08 to late '12: Lucas 180W 3-phase alternator/Lucas rectifier/dual Zeners, Taylor Spiro Pro secondary wires, standard 14AH flooded battery.

2. From late '12 to today: Alton e-start 150W single phase alternator/Podtronics single phase regulator, Taylor Spiro Pro secondary wires, Shorai 18AH battery

I have done nothing related to the TS since '08 - haven't even checked the timing since then! ;) I did open the points cover yesterday just for grins; TS looks like it did when I installed it.
 
Someone sells a gasket for the points cover that is significantly thicker than original and is supposed to be a thermal insulator. Would that help keep the area cooler?
 
oldbeezer said:
Someone sells a gasket for the points cover that is significantly thicker than original and is supposed to be a thermal insulator. Would that help keep the area cooler?
Click to expand...

Not to pick on you but just as an example of the unknown...
OK
Lets analyze this.
Do you then cool the cap ONLY by air? heated by exhaust pipe...
Is holding the aluminum cap off of the timing chest with an insulator a good thing?
Does the timing chest act as a heat sink to pull some heat away from the cap by original metal to metal contact?
Is it good thermally to no longer cool the inside of the timing chest with oil because of the drained timing chest mod?
...I'm not ricky racer...I would not do it to my engines

Until you attach a few strategically located thermocouples and get data while running, how can you answer your own question?
I've not done it, and have no TS or Pazon ignitions to test.
Also
Trispark model XYZ ? rev1-2-3?
Pazon model XYZ ?
Boyer model XYZ ?
apples, oranges or pineaples???
 
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dynodave said:
Not to pick on you but just as an example of the unknown..
Click to expand...
I don't feel picked on, I asked the question because the answer is unknown to me. I am in the process of assembling a Commando and looking at options and thought perhaps someone may have experience with this.
dynodave said:
Do you then cool the cap ONLY by air? heated by exhaust pipe...
Is holding the aluminum cap off of the timing chest with an insulator a good thing?
Does the timing chest act as a heat sink to pull some heat away from the cap by original metal to metal contact?
Click to expand...
I guess that is the heart of the question, will insulating the points cover result in the area under the points cover be cooler or warmer or will the difference be negligible.
dynodave said:
Do you then cool the cap ONLY by air? heated by exhaust pipe...
Click to expand...
That brings up another thought, will using the "S" pipes cause the cap, area under the cap to be cooler.

In any case I am not an engineer nor do I have the equipment to test the various configurations. So I thought I would ask....
I realize it takes time to read and respond to the posts and I certainly appreciate all of the advice from experienced and qualified people on this forum.
Thanks, Jim
 
DynoD's post tells me that I left out some items I should have mentioned re my TS installation -

Ignition coils since '08 are the (dual) 6 Volt, German PVL Coil (part # 23-607131) sold by Old Britts which are cosmetically identical to the OEM Lucas coils.

Spark Plugs are NGK BP7ES

Trispark is the "Classic Twin" but that's all the instructions say so I don't know anything about earlier or later versions being different. I believe that 2008 - when I bought mine - was the first year it was sold so I assume the one I have is the first version or at least the first version that was entirely self-contained under the points cover.
 
oldbeezer said:
Thanks, Jim
Click to expand...

Jim of course, I said, "you you you" but I really mean anyone looking for the (an) answer.
While I could do a research project, if I was curious, and had a stake it the product.
The S pipes might help but to measure is to know...:)
MM the version of a particular produce is vital, if sense is to be made of the data offered, other wise the data doesn't add a lot if you don't know which product it pertains to .
This is when being nit picky counts in a good way.
 
I'd still like to know how fluctuating voltage (low voltage) affects the EI. Does amperage climb when voltage drops?
 
Looks like the similar series/family but I have not followed his product evolution.
Another Tri-spark Complaint


rvich
You might consider the EI is adversely interacting and affecting the podtronics?
Old fashion lucas rectifier, zener and capacitor work better?
 
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More info re MY setup. Not sure if this could be an issue but I'm wondering about poor grounds? I was just looking over notes I had made on my Norton since I bought it in '06...

I know some folks say that no additional grounds are necessary because there are red wiring harness (Pos) grounds where necessary but IMO, that's not really true. The OEM points and the Trispark (not sure how other EI's work) both ground to the engine case. The breaker points do it via the points backing plate being bolted to the engine; the Trispark does it with a separate ground wire, attached to the engine via one of those same bolts. IF the engine itself is not well grounded perhaps that could create a problem. Yes, in theory, the harness ground to the head steady SHOULD be an adequate ground to the engine. But OHM-ing it out on my Norton years ago showed was slightly more resistance from the pos terminal on the batt to the side of the engine than there was from the Pos terminal on the batt to the head steady ground point.

So I added a separate 12Ga wire Pos wire directly to the engine. I connected it with a ring connector under the OEM Pos wire ring connector at the head steady to a ring connector under the bolt that connects the head steady bracket to the engine. This wire has been in place since shortly after I took delivery of the bike in '06. With that wire, there was no resistance difference from the engine case to the Pos batt terminal.

I am not knowledgeable enough to KNOW if a less than ideal ground could cause an EI failure as opposed to an intermittent misfire but I'm just tossing it out there...
 
MexicoMike said:
More info re MY setup. Not sure if this could be an issue but I'm wondering about poor grounds? I was just looking over notes I had made on my Norton since I bought it in '06...

I know some folks say that no additional grounds are necessary because there are red wiring harness (Pos) grounds where necessary but IMO, that's not really true. The OEM points and the Trispark (not sure how other EI's work) both ground to the engine case. The breaker points do it via the points backing plate being bolted to the engine; the Trispark does it with a separate ground wire, attached to the engine via one of those same bolts. IF the engine itself is not well grounded perhaps that could create a problem. Yes, in theory, the harness ground to the head steady SHOULD be an adequate ground to the engine. But OHM-ing it out on my Norton years ago showed was slightly more resistance from the pos terminal on the batt to the side of the engine than there was from the Pos terminal on the batt to the head steady ground point.

So I added a separate 12Ga wire Pos wire directly to the engine. I connected it with a ring connector under the OEM Pos wire ring connector at the head steady to a ring connector under the bolt that connects the head steady bracket to the engine. This wire has been in place since shortly after I took delivery of the bike in '06. With that wire, there was no resistance difference from the engine case to the Pos batt terminal.

I am not knowledgeable enough to KNOW if a less than ideal ground could cause an EI failure as opposed to an intermittent misfire but I'm just tossing it out there...
Click to expand...

I have a dedicated ground wire there too. Not taking any chances on where the electricity may or may not find it's way back to the battery.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Actually, my thinking is the contrary... if an electrical issue is causing something to overheat due to internal load / current then venting the points cavity as much as you like ain’t gonna make any difference.

Tigernut says that people had tried venting the covers “all to no avail”... which I read as supporting my theory that failures are not due to ambient temps in the points cavity.
Click to expand...

Likewise, heat builds rapidly when the bikes slows or stops, which suggests they would play up at low revs or in traffic.
 
swooshdave said:
I have a dedicated ground wire there too. Not taking any chances on where the electricity may or may not find it's way back to the battery.
Click to expand...

I was going through some old wiring threads here this morning and found several posts where folks simplified their wiring by eliminating "those excess red [ground] wires." I pretty much do the opposite!

When I was in my late teens, I thought it would be cool to relocate the battery on my old 170 CID 6 cylinder, beige 4-door, 3-speed on the column, 1964 Ford Fairlane, to the trunk. Hey, that's what the racers did! So I did that and connected the neg terminal to the body/frame there in the trunk. Since the frame was part of the circuit, what could go wrong with that? Turned out that the frame and engine weren't really very well connected as far as the high-current demands of the starter were concerned and about 1/2 the time the starter relay just clicked. Turned out the circuit was being "completed" poorly and intermittently through the leaf springs/rear axle/driveshaft. Based on advice from a friend who worked at a gas station, I added a ground strap up front from the frame directly to the engine and everything was OK. Sure, the original setup was much more efficient but hey, sometimes the price of a "cool upgrade" is dealing with the reduced performance/efficiency! ;)

FWIW: It's hard to look cool in a '64 6 cyl Ford Fairlane even if the battery is in the trunk. :( OTOH, a '64 427 Fairline Thunderbolt...Now THAT"S a different thing! :)
 
On my bike I used coils, plug wires and plug caps from TS to avoid any problems. Oh well, thought it was a good idea.
 
I've had TS for 5 years and love it. One thing I think is important is to only have the resistance in the spark path to be only one single thing, to avoid a high impedance path to the plug.
In other words, dont use resistor plugs with resistor wires. Don't use resistor caps with resistor wires, dont use resistor caps with resister plugs, etc. Pick one only. That spark needs to discharge itself as soon as possible without backup.
I'm using R plugs only, with copper wires to plug, and non-resistor caps. Have had zero problems and it is hot here in SC.
Jaydee
 
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I've sold/installed many over the past three years. All version e (e.g. TRI-0005Be). I've never had one come back or a complaint.

I have done replacements on two original versions - one I personally verified as failed in a Commando and one from a triple from a guy in FL who swore it failed when hot - that "failed" one is running fine in my Trident. I've installed in singles, twins, and triples.

When I got my 850 Commando, the PO had made a really good frame ground and no engine ground (the red wires that were supposed to go to the head went to the frame). The bike was randomly misfiring so I thought that the RITA ignition it had was bad and switched it to Tri-Spark. It was still misfiring so I got out my old oscilloscope to figure out why - didn't take long to realize that I had a bad ground. Once fixed, no more misfiring.
 
MexicoMike said:
I was going through some old wiring threads here this morning and found several posts where folks simplified their wiring by eliminating "those excess red [ground] wires." I pretty much do the opposite!

When I was in my late teens, I thought it would be cool to relocate the battery on my old 170 CID 6 cylinder, beige 4-door, 3-speed on the column, 1964 Ford Fairlane, to the trunk. Hey, that's what the racers did! So I did that and connected the neg terminal to the body/frame there in the trunk. Since the frame was part of the circuit, what could go wrong with that? Turned out that the frame and engine weren't really very well connected as far as the high-current demands of the starter were concerned and about 1/2 the time the starter relay just clicked. Turned out the circuit was being "completed" poorly and intermittently through the leaf springs/rear axle/driveshaft. Based on advice from a friend who worked at a gas station, I added a ground strap up front from the frame directly to the engine and everything was OK. Sure, the original setup was much more efficient but hey, sometimes the price of a "cool upgrade" is dealing with the reduced performance/efficiency! ;)

FWIW: It's hard to look cool in a '64 6 cyl Ford Fairlane even if the battery is in the trunk. :( OTOH, a '64 427 Fairline Thunderbolt...Now THAT"S a different thing! :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, Thunderbolts were quite an animal at the drag strip where they only appeared. My grandfather left us the same Fairlane as yours, but a 2 door. He would redline first and then shift directly into third. I had thoughts of swapping in a 289, but stayed with Chevy's and built a 64 Chevelle with a 350 small block. Might have gone big block, but along came the gas crisis..............
 
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