Amal Rebuild, What Do I Need?

I've had famous world wide BI vendor refuse to sell me the chromed slides as too many bad reports of the flakes sucked though and out engine chambers. If these new chrome slides are not prone to this I'd like to know but will still buy a better unplated alloy variety.

pvisseriii said:

CanukNortonNut said:

[Very true batrider 930 Amals do not wear as quickly as the 932's, but do the check slide to body check anyway. Gary might just get away with just a rebuild kit.
Cheers
CNN

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Clue me in how 930's should last longer than 932's. Same bore, same slide.......
Always eager to learn.

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pvisseriii
The best way to explain this is to show (flange end) shots. The bodies are the same and the slides. Its the bores that show how much more material is not supporting the slide. http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/ge ... tor-85934/
932 32MM bore.
http://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/index.php ... tail&p=402
930 30MM bore.
Regards.
CNN

Fitting repair kits to carbs with worn bodies, will improve things for a short while, in the same way that putting new piston rings into an engine with a worn bore, would increase compression for a little while.

The proper way to check for wear is to accurately measure the carb body where the slide runs, checking for taper and ovality. However in the case of Amal carbs its worth remembering that the carb body itself will very often be distorted, and measurements will alter when carbs are installed if this is the case.

Easy way to measure carbs is with a cheap set of Chinese bore gauges from Ebay, and a reasonably accurate micrometer or vernier gauge. Only problem though is that some Amal carbs are very poor even when new, so from an engineering perspective its very difficult to work out how much taper and or ovality is acceptable.

It seems a bit contrary to get into Jim about choice of carbs when almost nobody uses points ignition on their Norton any more. What's the difference? He sells after market Norton parts. I do too. So what? Doesn't mean he isn't entitled to an opinion. Like others he isn't exactly in it to make money. I wouldn't fit an Anal Eccentric (or two!) to save my life. My VM34 Mikuni is as trouble free as it gets, carburates beautifully and gives good economy. Show me a set of Amals that fit the bill.

I'm running points on my 750. Pazon on the 850. Amals sleeved by Bruce Chessell on both bikes - 930s on the 750, 932s on the 850.

First kick starts hot or cold (love those ticklers!), smooth idle, excellent performance, 55 mpg - what's not to like? Oh, and I'm using the old original floats too. Haven't had any trouble with them. I do have the viton-tipped needles in my carbs.

Debby

Not heard of many Mikuni or Keihin carbs that are so poorly made they ever need to be sleeved? Repairing a worn out carb with sleeving is probably cheaper than buying another (which will wear out just as quickly), but surely carbs that are of similar quality to Jap, Taiwanese, or Chinese made ones, should be quite feasible?

I have been wanting to respond to the interesting turn of events in this thread but I have been busy installing my belt drive, 520 chain, and sealed wheel bearing to get around to it. Luckily I have electronic ignition so I was able to work this into my schedule. Here is my opinion on it...everyone who owns a Norton should learn to work on their Amals. After that choose the path that leads you to the most joy.

I don't think anyone has told Gary how important it is to get in there with a fine piece of guitar wire and clean out the air vent. Then if they are not re-sleeved ... they should be or will need to be. And install new slides or go with modified Mikuni slides. Then there is frequent adjustment to look forward to forever. I'm amazed that there are Norton riders loyal to Amal. Does anyone really feel that way after experiencing a smooth running, reliable and easy starting Nort with Mikunis, Del Ortos, PWKs, other models of Keihins or any other brand of carb that is properly adusted & jetted?

If so then maybe the answer for them is to find out about the SU carb (plus electronic ignition) that Norton would have come out with on their still born 850 when the economic axe fell. You could almost call that a stock OEM item - save your purist pride and have a better running, more reliable bike - depending on if such an SU carb is still available.

Coming from one who does not think its a sin to improve Nortons if it means switching OEM parts to aftermarket parts - a disease I picked up from racing when you have to do these things in order to win.

How many of those who favour very poor OE type carbs have actually ridden a bike equipped with a modern alternative, and how many of those who have replaced points ignition systems with electronic, are still claiming the rather unreliable points set up is superior?

Carbon I have had it both ways on two Combats and for normal sane ridding around and low risk ride thrills I prefer the pure plain Jane factory Combat with smallish dual Amals and low voltage tolerant fast rise spark curve of contact breakers, so much so I've gone to extra trouble to put my 2nd Combat Trixie back to plain Jane state removing Miki carb and Boyer found in there. Some of us like it the way it was and a plain Commando for what it is, needing us but delivering quaint satisfaction as daily rider.

Now to spank elite sports bikes I'm leaving everything Norton behind but the frame, Roadholders and Combat head plus no float bowl in sight.

Don't mind the fact that people put on different carb's, after all, it is their own bike.
What I din't like, is that some of these people get so bloody "Anal" themselves over it.
Does make me laugh though, half of them can't get the jetting right.
Think I will stick with my Amals, as I am no carburation expert & mine runs lovely.

Flo, that's the way I feel about it. I have no issue with others going to modern things, but when the points and the Amals work fine for me, that's all I need. I have nearly always found that the after market items tend to bring their own issues. Maybe if I ran millions of miles, I would feel different as things wear out, but when they work fine, why bother. I have to admit I'm thinking about the belt drive though.

Dave
69S points and 930 Amals

T95
While you're at it these might be worth considering.
I just put this on this evening.Handy if you need to set the idle without a screwdriver every time.There's one for Air mixture included too but I didn't use it.
Linky http://mcctriumph.com/VelocityStack.aspx
Pix
Stock V New

Installed

First off I got to say that I posted yesterday morning and could not get back online until today. I was quite floored to see 33 replies to my Amal post. I read through every post and appreciate your tips and opinions on checking & rebuilding of the Amals. It was also interesting hearing the debates over running stock verses no-stock parts.

I recently realized I needed a vision of what my pile of parts will become. My current plan is to restore the bike to near stock condition including rebuilding the Amals and attempting to get the bike running on the Lucas electrical components. My hope is that I will be methodical in the rebuilding process and my bike will be trouble free. I know I will have allot of sorting to do and if I am really lucky I will get it right. If not it is nice to know alternatives exist.

After being off the bike for over thirty years I really no longer have a base line for comparison. So maybe I am lucky that I get to pick and choose from your tips. I guess time will tell if grasshopper has chosen the right path!

Now don't let me interrupt you Guy's and Gals! Thanks again- Let the debate continue!

The only thing to prevent a real factory issued Commando deligher is the dang mechanical advance gets worn sloppy and sticking so make idle steady impossible but one run to isolatic isolation rpm low 2000's its as good or better than some electron one size curve fits all. Start shopping and asking about for mech adv. units that are still serviceable and now and then dribble some thick oil on it. Yours may still be ok, but long term it won't.

Thirty years eh? Well that's about where I am, '76 to '10 and I have yet to get it on the pavement, but as soon as this rain lets up. Coat your AAU and I mean the whole thing with RIG or Distributor Cam Lube if you can find it, it's thicker, but not enough to throw off. Might even try the Molybdenum Disulfide, better known as Dri-Lube. If it's any consolation to you, I'm still using my original harness with most of the original spade lugs, original coils, condensers, points, carbs, rotor and stator, clutch, even some cables, but I don't trust them. It just depends on what the condition is, mine ran fine when I put it up and it started on 2nd kick after total rebuild (and battery). Only 10 miles on it so far, but soon more. I wanted to restore it pretty much in original (looking) condition. I realize original means different things to different people, but mine looks like it did when I bought it, only better, because now I have the time and money (about $7K). There are still many things to play with too.

Dave
69S

If an advance unit is worn out completely, in common with bodging a worn out Amal carb with sleeving, its almost certainly possible to repair it. However whats the point when a electronic set up will work better, and would probably be cheaper that getting the advance unit repaired?

Rich_j said:

jseng1 said:

The only only thing you need to permanently fix an Anal carb is a large and heavy hammer - a few quick strokes and it will never need maintenance again.

Coming from someone who has gratefully switched to flatslide carbs and will never go back.

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There are times when I think the moderators should be a bit more active and this is one of them.

You have a commercial interest in flogging aftermarket carbs and should restrain your enthusiasm in using the forum as a promotional tool :evil:

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No problem's with these Amal's.

Looking at the photo above - it appears that there actually is a very big problem - there is no fuel line running to those Amals. On the other hand - those Amals won't cause you problems or need maintenance if the bike doesn't run (just kidding).

I'm going to give credit here to my old racing buddy Chris Scott who was the first one I knew who started using the "anal" term. I used amals at the time and I wasn't offended - I thought it was funny. He owned a shop and printed a "Supertwins" news letter with photo of an Amal carb with the lettering changed to "Anal" and then proceeded to explain how to rebuild them and clean out a plugged air mixture screw vent with a guitar wire.

Lighten up everyone - some of you are taking this "anal" thing way to serious.

But just to be on the safe side - keep those Amals away from me and my hammer.

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Constructive note:
To the poster who showed the extended idle speed screws - the other thing you need is extended mixture screws - I soldered brass tabs into the slots of mine so they stuck out about 1/4", then I could adjust them at stop sights without a screw driver.

Good catch! I see the bike also has no spark plug leads. So yeah, those Amals should last pretty much forever! :wink: