Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (UK)

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

L.A.B. said:

Thanks Doug, that's excellent.

Click to expand...

Think a few quid repairing the alloy fin,and a pair of doc martins! would be my cuppa!

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

MexicoMike said:

" I already sent them an email months ago about this but never got a reply. I sent another email a few weeks ago & the same thing, no reply!"

Not very encouraging... I sure hope it doesn't turn into one of those prototypes that never actually gets into production.

Click to expand...

Boy! Did it spin the motor over!! Had one on a Vinnie 1000 and they are good.....Bit like my Doc martins.. good but a bit whimpy,,,remember when Harley took the kick start off? sales dived..Why no self respectin cow boy would be seen dead pressing a button, even if it had a skull on it!!! :lol:

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

Well, if I ever do put E start on my Commando (regardless of whose version) I wouldn't remove that kickstart lever!

I tend toward the Old Britts if this French one doesnt work out. Fred/Ella are the best and even though I have NO wish to go to belt drive, I might be forced to do so. I'm hoping this (French) one becomes readily available ( and actually works as advertised).

French parts on an English motorcycle..who woulda' ever thought... :roll:

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

swooshdave said:

doug said:

Sorry just the one photo of the starter.
Its 1400 euros.

Click to expand...

Can you run it with a belt?

Click to expand...

Saw it demonstrated at Stafford and it certainly spun that motor over which the guy said was a combat. I asked if it could be used with a belt and the answer was no, shame because I do like my beltdrive and at that price its a very attractive kit.
Best

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

Hey...howsabout one of you French-speaking Nortanos see if they'll give as a deal on multiple units?

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

hi all,this looks like a good set up if it works,the only reason i can think of that its not suitable for a belt drive is because the starter motor drive chain is going to need lube,most norton belts are designed to run dry,but there are belts available to run wet,hayward springs to mind

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

That's a very nice looking conversion. It looks like it would also fit in my wideline featherbed with a Commando engine, tilted forward as in the Commando. It originally had a full Commando primary with alternator, etc. When I went racing with it, I removed the alternator to make room for the 40 mm Newby belt drive, but I've been thinking of converting it back to a street bike, and the electric start would be nice (I'm a bit old and feeble now). I would have no issues with going back to a chain primary for a street bike. On the race bike, the belt drive lets me use a lower primary drive ratio to spin the gearbox faster for longer gearbox life, but on a street bike it's no big deal.

Ken

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

chris plant said:

hi all,this looks like a good set up if it works,the only reason i can think of that its not suitable for a belt drive is because the starter motor drive chain is going to need lube,most norton belts are designed to run dry,but there are belts available to run wet,hayward springs to mind

Click to expand...

So are you thinking what I am? It would work with a belt, you would just want to keep an eye on the starter chain?

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

Re bet drive - (If that unit will work OK with a belt)... if they make O-ring chains in whatever link size that chain is, that would eliminate any concern about it re lube for an AWFUL lot of miles since it is not exposed to any dirt/grit.

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

swooshdave said:

chris plant said:

hi all,this looks like a good set up if it works,the only reason i can think of that its not suitable for a belt drive is because the starter motor drive chain is going to need lube,most norton belts are designed to run dry,but there are belts available to run wet,hayward springs to mind

Click to expand...

So are you thinking what I am? It would work with a belt, you would just want to keep an eye on the starter chain?

Click to expand...

I think the lube is for the sprag clutch, the chain running from the starter only moves when the starter is engaged.

Jean

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

" the chain running from the starter only moves when the starter is engaged."

But if the chain is attached to the crankshaft sprocket it has to be spinning all the time doesn't it?

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

hi mike,without seeing an exploded view of the parts involved,i would think there is some kind of sprag clutch involved,either on the starter motor drive end or the crankshaft sprocket,if its on the crank it wouldnt spin once the engine was running

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

Thanks Chris, Yes - quite right; I ASSumed that there would either be a sprag at the starter end or that the starter would engage with a "bendix." In either of those cases, the starting chain would always be spinning. I hadn't thought about a sprag on the crank sprocket. As you said, it would be nice to see an exploded parts view.

Re the display at the show...anybody know if it was actually demonstrated to start the Norton engine or was it just a static display?

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

Hi Lads,

Got this back from Alton:

Our electric starter kits are not suitable for 850cc Norton originally fitted with electric start.
But we have had a couple of enquiries for them (we were at Stafford Classic Bike Show last week end) so that I think that this could be the next project.
I will keep you informed.
Regards
Paul

So, anybody who has a MK3 ES & is interested in upgrading send them an email


Kevin

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

Just curious - Is it really necessary to spend that sort of money to "upgrade" the oem MKIII starter? I have a friend with a MKIII which has a "4 brush" motor and a bit heavier than oem starting cable. But that's it and it spins the starter/starts the bike quite easily. (I don't know if the motor is a replacement of if there is a 4-brush kit for the oem motor)

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

MexicoMike said:

Just curious - Is it really necessary to spend that sort of money to "upgrade" the oem MKIII starter? I have a friend with a MKIII which has a "4 brush" motor and a bit heavier than oem starting cable. But that's it and it spins the starter/starts the bike quite easily. (I don't know if the motor is a replacement of if there is a 4-brush kit for the oem motor)

Click to expand...

Hi,

It a fair enough point.

I know you can get an upgraded starter motor & cables on the OEM setup & for most people it seems to works fine but you also have a sprag gear & an anti-kickback mechanism + a few gears that also could do with replacing after 35 years of use. When you add all this up & then consider that most of these mechanism where designed back in the 70's at that stage it might be worth having another option.

I think if I was to replace everything to do with the OEM starter system it would cost about 750-800euro. Having another option using modern higher spec parts (I think?) that cost about 1500euro is IMHO worth it.

Kevin

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

Here is some info straight from Alton...

Voici quelques éléments techniques pour éviter quelques erreurs déjà lues sur ce premier forum !
Le kit (que nous appelons "ESKN" entre nous), c'est :
- un moteur de démarreur 12 volts (starter motor)
- un système de transmission, càd un carter vissé à l'intérieur du carter spécial de transmission primaire contenant les pignons. (drive system i.e. an alloy case screwed to the inner face of the specific primary drive inner case, containing pinions)
- un carter spécial de transmission primaire (specific primary drive inner case). Il est plus solide que le carter d'origine et a plus de matière dans les endroits critiques. (it is re-enforced and has more "meat" where it is necessary). Il porte un système d'étanchéité au niveau de l'arbre de boite de vitesses (similaire à celui d'origine)
- un pignon double (twin pinion) qui fait passer le mouvement vers l'intérieur du carter de transmission primaire
- une platine en acier (iron steady plate) dont le rôle est de maintenir les axes des pièces en mouvement et le stator de l'alternateur
- une chaine de transmission (starter drive chain) entre le pignon double et la roue libre
- l'ensemble roue-libre càd : la roue libre (sprag clutch), son support, sa piste intérieure et son plateau à chaine
- un rotor portant les aimants permanents (permanent magnet rotor)
- un stator d'alternateur (generator stator). La puissance maxi du générateur est 150watts. Cette caractéristique pourrait évoluer si cela parait nécessaire.
- toutes les petites pièces nécessaires (visserie, etc...) pour l'installation ou la connexion
- la batterie sera sans doute en option

For those who have trouble reading french or simultanous translation, the kit will include a new stronger pre-machined inner chaincase ready to bolt on in place of the original. A starter motor with all the gearboxes and shafts and do hickies to transfer the movement from the outside of the chaincase to the insides of the chaincase and then to a chain running to a sprag clutch sitting next to the original 3 row engine sprocket. There is a new rotor so take the Lucas rotor and see how far you can throw it, if you are smart, you will do that under a steel bridge so the feeble magnets may help it sail a few millimiters further than in a sand pit. There is a new 150 watts thinner alternator so that it fits inside the stock outer cover. All the hardware and electrical connectors are included, the battery may be offered as an option.


For the inquisitive minds, none of this is on their web site, that does not mean it is vaporware, it means they are busy carving metal to make products rather than sitting at computer keyboards. The release date has not been set, but it is expected to be this summer. Installation which is strictly bolt on, will take about three hours if you drink a lot of beer or one hour if you stay sober :mrgreen: The whole kit can be taken off when the motorcycle is sent to a museum and no one will ever know it was there helping you enjoy that big brutish twin.

Jean

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

I'm very keen on this e-start and like many I have a belt drive fitted (RGM) - I'm not sure it would be happy running in oil and like some of you conclude - I'm sure the starter chain (or more likely sprag clutch) will need a decent supply of oil (i.e primary chain oil). Even if they could make a system for belt drive I imagine the problem for Alton would be to produce a crankshaft pulley to suit the numerous different belt drive systems fitted (I cannot imagine that the belt types and pulleys are all the same - - ). If this system 'takes-off' then I see quite a demand for second-hand primary chain kit (Chain,sproket and clutch drum) - shame to lose the good points of a belt though - - .

Cheers

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

john robert bould said:

Why no self respectin cow boy would be seen dead pressing a button, even if it had a skull on it!!!

Click to expand...

Skull? Who said anything about skulls?

hee hee

Re: Alton Electric Starter Conversion On Show at Stafford (U

The september issue of Moto Légende (a french magazine) had a little article about the upcoming starter from Alton...



Basicaly it repeats what was said before in this forum and adds that the first kits will be for standard positive ground bikes with a negative ground version coming soon after. A kit for or with a belt drive is also planned according to the article. The most noteworthy difference between the Alton kit and the others besides the lower price is the ease of installation which can take one hour for someone who has done it before to 3 hours for a virgin installer not to mention it can be taken out and the bike returned to its former starting method whitout a trace.

a few more pictures







Jean