Afraid of bike

capehorner · Jul 28, 2013

I have a 1975 Norton 850 Commando with Pazon Sure-Fire ignition. Battery is good. Bike is strobed at 28 Degrees at 3K RPM. Plugs are new. Carbs are new Amal Premiums. When I kick start this bike I always make sure I am not on the compression stroke. So far I have injured foot first time, second time broke (hairline cracks), and now yesterday it got me again. I am getting scared of this bike. Any hints, etc...??

concours · Jul 28, 2013

Retard the timing until it doesn't kick back. You a light person? I remember parts of a previous thread.. Have you verified your timing indicator with a degree wheel? When timed to spec, my bike ran like a lawn tractor engine. Adjusting by sound/feel brought it alive, still no kickback. Of course, I don't recommend this, but for my lazy arse, it worked.

rvich · Jul 28, 2013

I am not sure what you mean when you say that you make sure it is not on compression stroke. You push it thru the top and then kick it? I do just the opposite. I bring it up against resistance, return the kick lever to top and then give it a good swift push. I use a fairly straight leg. I basically hop on my left leg and bring my weight (I have plenty of it) down on the kick lever. I can't remember the last time I got kicked.

Russ

71basketcase · Jul 28, 2013

Adjusting by sound/feel brought it alive, still no kickback. Of course, I don't recommend this, but for my lazy arse, it worked.

hahaha. That's pretty much how I did it as well....( that's how I used to time my old VW bugs) Doing this, everything runs great. plug color good, throttle response good......pulls strong. I'm a 'cruise all day at about 50 ' kinda guy so this seems to be fine for my kind of riding.

hard for me to comment on kick starting as I too have plenty of 'gravitational pull'

kfh

Marathon Man · Jul 28, 2013

capehorner said:
So far I have injured foot first time, second time broke (hairline cracks), and now yesterday it got me again. I am getting scared of this bike. Any hints, etc...??

If timing is right and you're still getting kickbacks then try this: http://www.alton-france.com/ekitnorton.html

I plan to get one. My kickbacks are rare but when they happen it's not fun. I once owned a Harley Shovelhead that kicked-back so hard that I was limping for days. Eventually I won't be able to do 5k races or marathons if I don't get e-start. I was even contemplating getting a modern bike for the ease of a push-button starter.

Hobot · Jul 28, 2013

It is a bad habit practice to try to start the kick over w/o being on the compression resistance first as correct sparks are supposed to hit just before TDC and if not already got weight and engine inertia helping it can break stuff in bike or body. On electrics it might not be a bad idea if there was a bit of delay before iginition fires so nil chance of kick backs just kick forwards to run. Also some electronics need a turn or two to recognize when to fire correctly. I re-broke a very bad broke knee to finally come to firm habit of setting timing retared just enough not to back fire, then mark the setting, then maybe put a light on it to sound like i"m a real mechanic that goes by the book.

pete.v · Jul 28, 2013

Let's be clear here. The timing guage that is on the primary outer is "NOT" a given and should be validated.

Nortiboy · Jul 28, 2013

capehorner said:
I have a 1975 Norton 850 Commando with Pazon Sure-Fire ignition.So far I have injured foot first time, second time broke (hairline cracks), and now yesterday it got me again. I am getting scared of this bike. Any hints, etc...??

1975 would be electric start so I assume made before this date.

You need an ignition system that goes to full retard below say 600 rpm. Trispark has this feature. In 6 years never a kick back.

L.A.B. · Jul 28, 2013

Nortiboy said:
1975 would be electric start so I assume made before this date.

rear-master-cylinder-housing-t15096.html#p183907

capehorner said:
Bike is 75 Commando 850, electric start

rick in seattle · Jul 28, 2013

Are you really, really, really sure your battery is at full charge under load? Measured it with lights on as a test? This is the most common source of kickback when using an EI. The Pazon Surefire has the lowest advance of any EI in common use below 600 rpm (TriSpark and the Pazon Altair both show 3-4 degrees of advance at this point, and are rarely accused of a kickback problem), so I'd be hesitant to blame the EI.

pazon-digital-electronic-ignition-with-idle-stabilization-t10191.html

How about a fresh charge, confirm the loaded voltage, and then a few gentle kicks?

Dances with Shrapnel · Jul 28, 2013

capehorner said:
When I kick start this bike I always make sure I am not on the compression stroke.

Guys, read what capehorner is telling us here. Before we go down the path of pulling the head, rebuilding the bottom end and converting over to dual plug heads consider the obvious.

Run the kick starter (engine) up to compression (well into compression), ratchet back for a full kick and then kick through firm and fast. At least that's how my momma taught me to do it.

acotrel · Jul 28, 2013

dances, my momma didn't like us racing motorcycles. however you are right. if you use the kick start to slowly push well up on the compression stroke, the give it the solid push over the top, it can never bite you. And if youve got fuel and spark and everthing is in the right place, it will always start. Bouncing the piston of a lungful of mixture is asking for trouble.

Craig · Jul 28, 2013

Ever notice people who are afraid of dogs are the ones bitten? Get it on compression and give it the best you got (not a timid shove ) ,it will start and you will lose your fear.
Craig

Rohan · Jul 28, 2013

If its nicely in tune, you should be able to give it a decent kick any-old-time and it will start.

If its kicking back, take to someone who can tune it as required ?

baldy · Jul 28, 2013

You might want to break down and get an electric start conversion.

For less money, I have seen bicycle pedal type kickstarts and of course a sturdy pair of boots will spread the load to your foot.

Double check your timing with a strobe and make sure it is OK.

DogT · Jul 28, 2013

I've always started mine just over compression, unlike the rest of youse. It seems to give me a little 'velocity'. But I give it all I have and make sure to follow through the next compression, not a wimpy push. I may start trying the before compression method. AAU and SureFire have been good to me. I've only experienced a very small kick back, more of a hesitation, once with the Pazon.

You'll never start it if you're afraid of it.

dennisgb · Jul 28, 2013

I remember the days of being thrown across the lawn when trying to start my BSA Spitfire Hornet. I raised the compression ratio when I built the engine and that one was a beast to start. The 441 Victor with the compression release was fun too if you didn't time the release right.

The 850 MKIII is a breeze to kick start. It doesn't take much on mine to get it to fire to life.

DogT · Jul 28, 2013

I had a B33 single 500 that could be a bear to start despite the compression release. Luckily I lived on the top of the hill in the Presidio of Monterey, so it was easy to roll it down the hill. I always made sure I parked on the upper lot.

dennisgb · Jul 28, 2013

DogT said:
I had a B33 single 500 that could be a bear to start despite the compression release. Luckily I lived on the top of the hill in the Presidio of Monterey, so it was easy to roll it down the hill. I always made sure I parked on the upper lot.

Those singles were a handful

The 441 Victor single was something...the gearing was so weird...if you didn't rev it as high as it would go in third, you would lop into fourth...but seemed like it would never stop going once you got to fourth gear

DogT · Jul 28, 2013

Only thing I remember is after 10-15 minutes, your arms were asleep up to the elbow. But it shifted on the correct side and you could feel every stroke. Good low end torque.

I've thought about a 441 Victor recently. I saw one locally about a year ago.

But I've never seen a Norton around here.

Afraid of bike

capehorner

concours

rvich

71basketcase

Marathon Man

Hobot

pete.v

Nortiboy

L.A.B.

Moderator

rick in seattle

Dances with Shrapnel

acotrel

Craig

Rohan

baldy

DogT

dennisgb

DogT

dennisgb

DogT

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