Afraid of bike

People talk about the vibration but I really don't remember that being a problem...but I was in my 20's so probably didn't phase me.

I remember the power and low end torque...the Victor was a "thumper".

Decent boots & put your instep against the out - lever . NOT the palm of your foot .
Positioning the pistons , then the crank , then throwing yoursef up so your WEIGHt swings it through, does the trick .

Though with the ignition locked fully advanced and less than your undivided attention . . . :lol: :lol: :x :!:

I've been painfully afraid to kick off more than one model of Norton. The worse was the P!! which was set purely and soley for drag strip mania so was set to back fire routinely but I was too young innocent and stupid to know why or that it even could be detuned a bit. Fractured foot a number of times and jammed knee about as many times as it lifted-threw me to ground. Next one was 1st no name Combat after the wheelie drag strip crash took out R knee so just skin holding it on, allowed sideways bend so r foot could touch r hip ugh. I put in a Boyer during recovery and started it ok on bumb wrapped knee, as was set by ear prior and put a light on it to set per instructions 32' full advance. Back then didn't know Combats only needed 28'. Let it idle to close cover and rode it up behind house to top of steep drive way, shut down figuring I was well enough to ride again so suited up and on 1st good kick through just as knee fully straightened back fired to break loose/smash crumble the unstable knee tossing me far to side to roll 10 ft down then worm like in while knuckled pain for many minutes, then it eased up and I could gimp off as before. HOT DAM!! that meant because I'd spend all my extra moola on this Combat so not enough left for surgical joint replacement I would not have to have that to walk again and maybe even run someday.

Last kick start back fire weirdness happened immediately after a power wash on Trixie Combat a month ago that soaked the filter too much, just stepped down to start [Trixie didn't need a kick] expecting the routine turn on at a purr but instead felt my boot get pushed up to my butt as its heel ripped off to sling behind 10 yds. Didn't feel any jarring at all and didn't realize heel was gone till stepping down so still can't figure out how the heel got snagged as I put ball of foot on the kick peg not the hook of the heel. Hm it was shortly after this the small case bolt came out to over fill primary and immediately after that the kicker just grinds w/o turning engine...
So also be afraid of power wash for back fires that can become a complex show stopper.

I still have trouble starting my bike. Should I kick when it is at its easiest or at its hardest?

I'm with them who bring it up on compression and then go for it. Doing otherwise sounds like asking for trouble. I'm only 70 kg so I don't want no trouble.

I have experienced a series of kickbacks that left me limping for a few days. That was after fitting a Boyer MK3 E.I. as per the instructions. Retarding the ignition stopped the kickbacks.

I must say that I NEVER had a kickback when the old AAU was on the bike and it always started first or second kick.

But there's something I'm curious about: You didn't mention whether the kickback phenomenon occurs when using the electric starter.

Martin

lawman said:

I still have trouble starting my bike. Should I kick when it is at its easiest or at its hardest?

Click to expand...

If its set right, you should not get a kickback no matter where you start.

Happy to have a look. Where are U

where are you located??

Personally, I still run points so voltage is not really a concern. I get NO kickback and I can't remember the last time it did not start on first or second kick. And mine is a 74 and does not have the better kicker geometry of the 75.

I'd say go back to points, get it right close to TDC, get it on the center stand, give them amals a tickle, and give her the boot. Mine works best with a little choke as well so it will idle at first start. Choke comes off within a minute.

It's technique and getting to know your bike. But I also can't tell you how many times I've seen guys fart around with electronic ignition and mikuni carbs to try and 'improve' their commando and end up with a hard starting bitch.

Are you certain the alternator rotor is the correct one for the bike. If it isn't you don't know if you are setting the timing at 28* btdc or 48. This might not apply to Pazon ignitions, I don't know, but with a Lucas Rita it is possible to set the timing on permanent advance by reversing two connections. This might make starting a painful experience.
As Pete V said, don't take it for granted that everything is as it should be!

Agree that it should be kicked through after bringing the piston up to compression. Obviously, as mentioned, over-advanced timing will cause the problem and EIs are known for poor timing control if the voltage is low though it seems that the Boyer is far more critical for these than the Pazon/others but worth checking.

Go back to points is good advice. Starts off with no advance ,reliable low voltage sparkings and no firing when it is confused like electronics ,(eg. on or off with key or during a kickover where electronic needs to think positionings). The AAU can wear though from lack of maintenance (light greasings ,manual says every 3000 mi. so you will need to pull points periodically then gap and re-time chore. The advance curve is quite good with no surprises when set up well.

I've had easy one kick or just step ons with Boyah or points though plenty of back fires from Boyah when the battery was low or my kick not swift enough. i definitely perfer the points ease of start and idle and response curve, but of course that is a decaying condition d/t the AAU wearing out. Commandos may be the worse twin to kick over d/t the poor ratio of the kicker. Many Cdo owners have embrassed HD onwers who tired to kick off as if an easy push over like Harley. Alas if mine gets hard to start, battery dead, water in gas or the not so rare loss of conduction, then I'm only good for about a dozen kicks til I'm beat to snot and begining to suffer and wonder why oh why did I get into such a fragile & crappy mc. Then thots of how the mystery of this particular show stopper away from home will turn out. Nothing like a Commando to test one's manhood maturity on swearing in public or private, enduring pains of back fires or long squating and sweating, while stealing time and money from the rest of life and living on faith it won't happen next time out.

One of my worse kicker tales was with Boyah at night in light rain on THE Gravel on hi beam going too slow to charge and it stalled on throttle let off creasting a rise to stall d/t low voltage and end up at bottom of the dip with wet muddy boots that just will not stay of kicker peg enough to swing through but plenty enough to bruise foot sole again-again though boot sole, till can't tell if tears, sweat or rain wetting face.

I've come up with a compression release idea and gathered items to mod and install but so far life has gotten ahead of it.

I've started a 1000cc Vincent on 13 to one compression with the kick starter. Like a lot of things - easy when you know how. Just do it slowly.

Check your plug gap. I increased the gap when I installed a Boyer on an 850. Resulted in kick back. With help from a Norton expert diagnosing went to stock gap and it went away. Who knew.

There are at least 3 ways to change-affect spark timing, one the usual shifting of the trigger mount, two changing the magnet or contact break gap, three the spark gap. If your ignition system can fire wider gap than Norton points/coils this will delay spark closer to TDC, so you back off the mounting plate timing till no backfire, not close the gap, though either way works for good non competition tuning. Throw in extra resistance in the HT path and that will delay spark a bit after its been triggered till voltage builds higher to jump gap. References show the optimal timing evidence on plug is the thermal stain just before the bend in the hook electrode, if that what ya got. On lawn mowers with fixed trigger point on crank or cam mounts the only way to dial in timing is by the trigger gap. I've a propane genset that if magneto points set for gasoline will backfire hardly start with .012" gap but works sweet with .018" on LPG.

If they ever get the surface spark discharge type plugs back on market like in the '70's Fire-Injectors, that is what I'd run in both oil smoking over fuel rich fouling engines or new race engine getting set to launch at a strip and hang on till top out.

I think your ignition might just be over advanced. If you strobed it at 3000 RPM the electronic advance in your ignition probably wasn't at maximum yet. I think you have to strobe it at 5000 RPM.

Apart from that I don't know why your bike would kick back. Mine never does. I have an ancient Lucas Rita Ignition. It works fine. If I over advance my ignition I get some pinging if I open the throttle to much at low speed. I set mine at 28 degrees at 5000 RPM but it is hard to set it so after I get it pretty close I sometimes adjust it back and forth around that point a degree or two using the seat of the pants dyno to determine what is really best.

Nigel Spaxman

Timing is critical for sure. And while this horse isn't getting any more dead than it is I still wonder about the notion of being past compression when starting. Everything I have ever started in my life that had a kick start or a pull cord would be brought up against resistance before starting. I have an old Johnson 55-horse 2-cycle twin cylinder outboard that has very high compression. Starting it is about like starting your Commando with a pull cord on the crank. If you don't pull to resistance, rewind the cord, brace and pull the thing will try to tear your arm off. However by being on the compression stroke that first spark gives you help in following through with a full pull. There is no other way to start that Johnson. Just sayin'...

Russ

I dug out my Pazon instructions. The chart for the timing shows 31-degrees full advance. The curve crosses 28-degrees at or near 3000 RPM but I would crank it up to 5k and see what you are reading. Using a degree wheel to check the timing indicator in the primary is a good idea as well.

Russ

**Timing is critical for sure. And while this horse isn't getting any more dead than it is I still wonder about the notion of being past compression when starting. Everything I have ever started in my life that had a kick start or a pull cord would be brought up against resistance before starting. I have an old Johnson 55-horse 2-cycle twin cylinder outboard that has very high compression. Starting it is about like starting your Commando with a pull cord on the crank. If you don't pull to resistance, rewind the cord, brace and pull the thing will try to tear your arm off. However by being on the compression stroke that first spark gives you help in following through with a full pull. There is no other way to start that Johnson. Just sayin'... Russ**

Soon learned forever as a youth in Fla pulling cords on exposured spining flywheels in choppy water in small boats all the way up to a 80 hp DockKnocker Mercury. The only engines that are human effort started just after TDC are the hit and miss engines and big bore singles they back bike up to TDC, then engage kicker in hopes of flywheel inertia enough to follow through next TDC kabooM. In the big hit miss engines they will turn flywheel first backwards some to bounce off compression to help hand turn faster in correct direction past next TDC. Those have a soft bounce back d/t size of flwheel - try that on a Norton and walk like Gumsmoke's TV Festus for a while.

I sometimes think that my bike has a mind of it's own and is working against me. The truth is that whatever the bike does is a result of my own cleverness or stupidity. I am the one on control when I set it up, tune and ride it. I suggest you need to develop a different mindset - there is no room for 'afraid of the bike'.
You should be able to use your bike with confidence, and know what it will do. Rohan is right - the bike must be set up correctly, so either learn to do it yourself or pay somebody. Kick starting a bike is not rocket science. If the carburetion is somewhere near right, and the ignition advance is not silly, the bike should not bite you. However if you do silly stuff like bouncing the piston back off compression, you can expect a life of pain. Don't rush at it. Stand on the kick starter until the piston is well up the compression stroke then give it a sharper shove over the top. You can always hold a kick-back, you are not kicking over a 700cc single on 13 to one compression. - Even that can be kept under control.

' The Drill ' once familiar , and its a piece of cake .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzsJBjbCyvM

though suberban traffic requires tact , as we're not armed . :?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf-ANpwFGWk

Not a lot differant mental disposition required .
These things used to leak and bit fell off , too .

Top Line Squadrons & Wing Commanders tended to have more disciplined & skilled mechanics ,
wich could be worth your life , in a tight corner . Attention to detail , familiarity , and a good polish
was worth a good few m.p.h.