A (Stupid) Question About The N15CS And The P11

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Apologies if this seems painfully stupid to you all but I'm having some trouble figuring out what the major differences are between the Norton N15CS and the Norton P11/Ranger. Could any of you point me in the direction of some information on this?

Thanks for your time!
 
Ron L said:
It would be simpler to compare the similarities rather than the differences!
Click to expand...
I agree.
The bikes have the same engine and gearbox (but not the same gears ratio), the same clutch and inner/outer primary cover (even if the P11 has a central stud through to fit the footrest).
Same handlebar and levers, same headlight shell (but with the red warning light not in the same position), same tacho/speedometer, same front fender but not the stays of different lenght and with the bridge rotate to passage of the brake cable because p11 has the brake plate on the left), same coils, sae fuel tank.
i dont remember other parts the same.
Think that P11 has never had magneto (may bethe prototipes) and the Amal monoblocks; N15 have had.
 
Fuel tanks, from past threads were, lets put it this way, a matter of what the dealer had on.
There were reports of some dealers having both types of tanks, they just fitted the one the customer ordered.
All done in shop to special order and to confuse others down the line in 25 years time.
 
The P11 I got back in the early 1970's had a big Lucas magneto on it. However, it was raced in the dirt.

Different frames. The P11 is a PITA to get the motor out of or get the gearbox out of.

I think everything Norton ever did was to confuse people. In the case of the P11, more like 54 years later.
 
So says you , but hang on, wasn't it some famous N American importers who persuaded Norton to stick a Atlas engine inside the AMC frame to create a desert racer?
 
Bernhard said:
So says you , but hang on, wasn't it some famous N American importers who persuaded Norton to stick a Atlas engine inside the AMC frame to create a desert racer?
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Oops, yeah that's kind of what I thought. The confusing comment was unfair to the Norton Villiers. Kicking 'em when they are down.

My mistake, it was the N Americans that made the P11 a PITA to work on if R&R has to be done on the motor or gearbox. Gotta take the motor out to take the gearbox out. Gotta take the head off to get the motor out. Tight fit. When I was a young buck it all seemed relatively simple. Now not so much.
 
While I've never done much with N15,G15 or Atlas scramblers., I have it from other trustworthy sources that they're quite difficult to work on as well. I believe the transmission is even closer to the engine though it uses.the same primary and getting the cylinder head off with the engine in the frame can only be done after the exhaust rocker spindles are removed. I've also heard that the people responsible for bringing the P11 prototype to the factory in England had an uphill battle convincing management to build the P11 as a production model. The correct spacing for aligning the engine/transmission to the rear drive sprocket was supposed to be incorporated into the G85 frame, but it was not. Hence a complicated arrangement of various sized spacers that many restorers fail to understand. In any case the P11 is the only street scrambler that was made with the Renolds 531 tubing frame that was originally intended for racing. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :cool: C-ya, Jer
 
Won't get into the argument of the G85CS and P11 frames, but it is stated elsewhere on the internet (Britbike forum )that it depends which P11 model you have; there was the P11, P11A, P11Ranger or P11Ranger 750.
There were 3 gas tanks, 4 different oil tanks, 3 different seats as well as other different parts/ mods.
All designed to confuse today's owners to distraction. . . . .
 
Bernhard said:
Won't get into the argument of the G85CS and P11 frames, but it is stated elsewhere on the internet (Britbike forum )that it depends which P11 model you have; there was the P11, P11A, P11Ranger or P11Ranger 750.
Click to expand...
That would be P11A Ranger and Ranger 750. The P11A Ranger was likely just P11A's in the US warehouses that Berliner told dealers would be sold as "P11A Rangers", thus the identical sales brochures with P11A and P11A Ranger. Ranger 750 was quite different.

Just more confusion for today's restorers
 
Ron L said:
That would be P11A Ranger and Ranger 750. The P11A Ranger was likely just P11A's in the US warehouses that Berliner told dealers would be sold as "P11A Rangers", thus the identical sales brochures with P11A and P11A Ranger. Ranger 750 was quite different.

Just more confusion for today's restorers
Click to expand...
And it was the dealers at their shop who put Ranger 750 (or didn't) sticker on the oil tank and battery cover. . . . .
 
Bernhard said:
Won't get into the argument of the G85CS and P11 frames, but it is stated elsewhere on the internet (Britbike forum )that it depends which P11 model you have; there was the P11, P11A, P11Ranger or P11Ranger 750.
There were 3 gas tanks, 4 different oil tanks, 3 different seats as well as other different parts/ mods.
All designed to confuse today's owners to distraction. . . . .
Click to expand...
Fortunately, I'm not confused yet. Lots of years and bikes under my foot, but I'll always remember the model differences because I bought mine brand new in May `68.
A (Stupid) Question About The N15CS And The P11
 
Bernhard said:
And it was the dealers at their shop who put Ranger 750 (or didn't) sticker on the oil tank and battery cover. . . . .
Click to expand...
Yes, there are some, mostly in England, who believe there are 4 variants . Ranger 750 and P11Ranger are one and the same. Quite a few differences among the 3 without adding another layer of confusion. C-ya, Jer
 
There were 3 gas tanks, 4 different oil tanks, 3 different seats as well as other different parts/ mods.
Click to expand...
All designed to confuse today's owners to distraction. . . . .
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why that would confuse. Sounds like you could mount whatever parts you like and not be "incorrect". Should be a nitpicky restorer's dream.
 

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