A kindred spirit

A short while back there was a post questioning who will keep these Nortons running when we are gone, apparently this guy wonders the same thing. http://jalopnik.com/#!5780095/a-vintage ... the-future


GB

He's so right, our offspring are getting dumbed down, is it to make them state and big corporate reliant ? I don't know, but it's a bloody sad state of affairs.

Cash

Sad...
But not 100% true.
Had my daughter out helping me polish the aluminum. Thinking we'll change plugs tomorrow. Maybe throw on that new set of air cleaners .
It's up to us. We have to pass it on. There are kids out there that are cut out for this stuff. They just don't know it. No metal, or auto shops. No wood shop. How can a kid know if he's good at something unless they are exposed to it.

I have done the "modern-bike-thing" and it bores me:
Buy gas, turn key, push button, go away
That is just a little bit more fun than taking the Bus for me!

One of the attraction's with the old-bikes is that I feel like they "need me", that seems to be lost on MOST (but not all!) of the younger generation.
I suggest getting involved with the "Mods vs Rockers" or the "Cafe-Racer" thing in your town to meet the next generation of Brit-bikers, they tend to stay away from the established British Bike clubs because their bikes are not shiny and "correct" (remember being young and broke?, I do).
Those kind of events are an amazing breath of fresh air and they will renew your faith in the next generation!

April 1 in Dallas, Texas is the Dallas Mods vs Rockers reunion.
Old bikes and good beer, I plan on trying REAL hard to be there.

http://www.tonup.com is a popular meeting place for the next generation (run by a friend of mine).

Vince

caddy chris said:

Sad...

There are kids out there that are cut out for this stuff. They just don't know it. No metal, or auto shops. No wood shop. How can a kid know if he's good at something unless they are exposed to it.

Click to expand...

Absolutely true, the problem is, not only don't the kids know the teachers don't and because the clever types think that these skills can be taught to anyone within six months 80% of those getting apprenticeships are sub standard. In my opinion you're born with these skills and the years of training hone them. You can teach art to anyone but only a few have the talent to to become artists.

Cash

I have to agree Cash,
Some of us were born with wrenches (spanners) in our months. Others with a paintbrush.
You've made a very good point about the few remaining apprenticeships out there, I served a very good apprenticeship with British Airways, sadly their program only continued for about another 3 years after I started with each new intake getting smaller and smaller.
I don't see or hear too much about woodwork or metalwork being taught at schools these days either, so I guess these skills have to be taught at home to the lucky few who have parents, neighbors etc. who have the time and patience and skill to do this.
The final option is of course the internet, we can only hope that there are a some young people out there that will wake up one morning and decide to buy a vintage bike/car/home and will then stumble upon a site like this one, at least then we can pass on our skills and knowledge. It's not ideal but it's better than nothing!

Webby

Both my sons are into bikes, although not so much OLD bikes.

However, they are both mechanically inclined enough to hold the right end of a wrench, and my younger son even built up his own Triumph Bonnie bottom end (that's as far as he got before shipping out to Iraq).

I trust my collection will be in good hands when I'm gone, and they'll carry on admirably. I certainly know they have the appreciation to pass it on to thier kids.

I worry more about this stuff getting legislated away from us before I pass from this life, not people not being interested in it. Of course, I'm 57, so that could happen this afternoon for all I know! I do see some good interest in the younger generation. What I see the most of is some youngsters taking something like a Yamaha XS750, and cutting it all up and calling it a bobber, or something along that line. It's weird - a lot of us spent so much time in the 80s undoing the travesties of the 60s and 70s, that I wonder what the next round of that situation will be. I bought a 'orrible 1970 A65 that someone had put those twisted chrome struts on in place of shocks, and other great mods. I think at this point, with so many nicely re-done bikes out there, the cost of buying one of those to perform various debauchery on is going to be too high to worry about much of that going on. My son already has dibs on my '69 Trident, and there's no way he's changing much at all on that.

All you can do is expose kids to stuff and see what catches in their grill as they are speeding down the highway of life. But the exposure is the important part.

When I was barely old enough to walk I used to sit along side the family's old truck while my father would be underneath working on it. My job was very important. I was to hand him the tool he asked for. The wrenches and sockets would be set out in the proper order and when I was asked for one my job was to pick it out of the line up and hand it to him. This was probably why I was taught to count to ten as soon as I could talk. As a result I learned how to read fractions and learned the order they came in. I was also fastinated by the ratcheting handle in the WWII vintage Craftsmen socket set. When I went to school I was leaps and bounds ahead of other kids in math class because I already understood the relationship of the fractions. Who would have thought! So you just don't know what the kids will take away from the experience, but you just have to get them away from the computer and TV.

It's OK for us old farts to use the computer...we use them as a tool...right?

We have a broader problem with what I can only describe as "expertism." It seems we have become dependent on the experts. We don't trust ourselves to tear into a car, computer or home repair because that's in the realm of the expert. This position is encouraged by factories through the use of special diagnostic equipment, special fasteners that require a special set of tool to remove or even unnecessary plastic covers that hide major engine components. There is an attitude of fear that surrounds messing about with things too complex for the mere mortal mind. It's not just young people that have this problem, it is adults as well.

Years ago, my next door neighbor, an attorney by profession, fell in love with a little Triumph Spitfire. It didn't run and it looked like a troop of monkeys had played with the interior. He came over and talked to my dad about it. He wanted the car but doubted his ability to do the necessary work. He had never done mechanical work in his life. My dad's response was classic "You got through law school studying books right?" He admitted that he had. "Everything you need to know is in books at the public library. If you need help or get stuck just ask me and I'll show you what you need to do" As an aside, my dad was a machinist first and then later a mechanical engineer.

My neighbor got stacks of books and attacked the project as someone going for their MBA. He stripped the engine laying out and cataloging all the components. I still remember he and my dad lifting that tiny engine block out of the car with a chain over a 2x4 that they held between them. The moral of this story is that he completed the frame up rebuild, got the car running and drove it for several years. (. . .until he broke the crank speed shifting up the on ramp to the North Dallas Toll Road.) I believe that he was more proud of that car then he was of all his academic achievements.

There is a real risk to working on your own stuff. What if I break something? What if I am out riding and it quits? There is little reward in life without risk. The risk of breakdown is over shadowed by knowledge and self reliance. It may break but you know you can fix it when it does.

I find this forum is one of the best tools to repair the "expertism" problem.

You know it is ironic, computers have at one point distanced us from mechanical issue and yet at the same time brought us together as groups of experts and enthusiasts who, under normal circumstances, would never have crossed paths.

Very true!!!! :wink: Group hug??? Sometimes I almost think I know some of you guys, Great site we have here.

Awwwww, HUGGY!

Some of my first memmories as a boy was of helping my father in the shop. He was an Iron worker by trade and build dirt oval race cars for fun. I remember being tool gopher, "go get the wrench with the 9 and the 16 on it"
Somewhere around 6 years I welded for the first time. From then one I was always doing something in the shop. And to this day I don't feel complete unless I'm wrenching on something. I am proud to know that my 2 boys are getting the same treatment I did at their age. one is 2 1/2 and the other is almost 5. They already have their own toolboxes, and ask for more tools. Always interested in helping me on my projects. And like I did, taking things apart. I think there is hope for them. So many people afraid to try and instead fork over cash, often times unnecessary.

My son 19 yo, keeps on reminding me about his bequeth of the bike... Ive said fine, but my last trip must be on a motor cycle...Just throw the coffin in the side car. The only thing we've found suitable is a harley trike with the trailer dressed out as a hurst........ Ive said the eulogy has to start with....
''My Dad said He'd never been seen dead on a Harley!! But now I've got his Norton'

bwolfie said:

So many people afraid to try and instead fork over cash, often times unnecessary.

Click to expand...

You got that right! I was talking to a co-worker the other day. I know he is handy with tools. We said he had to pick up his GSXR1000 from the shop. "Really" I asked, "what did you have done?" He said "oil and filter, new air cleaner and brake line flush." The total bill turned out to be $345. He saw the shocked look on my face and said "well, I wanted it done right and you know, you have to take the gas tank off to get to the air cleaner!" I would rather spend the money on tools and do the job myself. I guess i am just different but I don't trust strangers to do a job better than I can do it.

$345.00 WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! More money than brains. I'm glad I don't have that problem.

My wife's cousun was quoted $1400 to change plugs and wires on her Eclipse. I did plugs, wires cap and rotor, valve cover gaskets MAF sensor pads and rotors for $800.00. Took me about 4 hours. Dealers suck. Irealize they have operating costs. but they have gotten too big for what you get.

There is another problem that won't easily be solved. When most of us were growing up you could still repair almost anything that you owened. If the toaster quit working you could take it apart and fix it. So before throwing stuff away you took it apart. Why not? The worst case was that you would throw it out anyway. So you learned to work on stuff and you got see how stuff was made. Now you can't even find a screw in a toaster. If you want to take it apart you have to break it! They are designed to be thrown out when they quit working. There is so much stuff made that way now. The auto industry has discussed the idea of selling cars that have no hood (bonnet). But they know that men like to look in there when they shop even if they can't work on the damn thing, so they still provide access so you can look at it. Very sad, particularly with resources becoming dear that we throw so much of it into the landfill.

OK, the soapbox will be put away now.

Russ

rvich, We all need to vent sometime. Get it all out.
Phil